Tuesday, April 10, 2012

Out Of The Circle

I am a mother.  I own a blog.  I write about adoption.

But according to the powers that be over at  Circle Of Moms , I am not qualified to be a part of their contest for the  Top 25 Adoption Blogs by Moms .  The picture is a screen shot of the email I received from them yesterday right before my blog disappeared from the number two position on their list . . .

--“Dear Cassi,

I’m writing to let you know that we have unfortunately had to remove your blog from the Top 25 Adoption Blogs by Moms competition.  As described on the contest page, the Top 25 Adoption Blogs by Moms contest is open to “mom bloggers who write about adoption or foster parenting in a supportive, positive way”.

Best,
The Circle of Moms team” - -

I tried to write about this last night, after I had received the email, but I quickly learned I needed to step back first and let the emotions work their way through before trying to make any sense out of what I wanted to say.

And when I did that, when I worked through my first reaction, took some deep breaths and stepped away from the anger and hurt that first came at me, I remembered that my latest experience was just one in so many for those who dare to stand up and speak out about the harder truth of adoption.  It wasn’t just my voice they were silencing.  It was the voices of everyone who doesn’t fit the accepted view of what is positive and supportive in the world of adoption.

First Moms, Adoptees and even Adoptive Parents know the reality of being “removed” from society’s view of adoption.  From the expectation of what we are supposed to feel, allowed to talk about.  Every day, in so many different areas, it happens to one of us.  Yesterday just happened to be my day.

See, even though adoption involves loss, the separation of a mother and child.  Even though it removes an adoptees original identity, strips them of their equal rights, the accepted discussions about adoption must hide those facts and only serve to make people feel good, to give them that warm, fuzzy feeling inside.  Anything else is seen as straying from being “positive and supportive.”

Anything else makes you the enemy who dares to say anything unacceptable, to challenge how people want to feel about adoption.  And very quickly, you are let known that you are “less than.”  Just a mere disobedient child, unworthy of being heard.  Protective walls go up to avoid listening to anything being said and the weapons come out to attack the one who dared to try and take away that warm, fuzzy feeling inside.

I can never know for sure what led up to my blog being removed but I can look back and wonder about the many hits I was getting from the site.  About the latest post that was there,  Coercion Not Choice , and see how it must have been a huge threat to those who wanted only to feel good about adoption.   A shock that someone who would dare to write such things would even be allowed inside their “circle.”

Whatever the reasons why, it doesn’t matter.   Their attempt to silence me, to place me “outside” of those allowed to talk about adoption, only gave me even more purpose, more determination, to keep going.  To speak out.  To fight for what I believe in and stand shoulder to shoulder with all the other wonderful voices out there that face the same threats of being “removed” for what they have to stay but still continue to go on, day after day, because they believe in what they are fighting for and refuse to give up when others try to silence them as well.

And you know, what I learned more than anything through this was that my life is full of the “positive and supportive.”  I am blessed with something many of them will never know, will never have a chance to experience in their lifetime . . .

The amazing friendships and love that I have found in the years since I began my fight for Adoption Reform and Adoptee Rights.

Last night was a flurry of activity after I shared the email I received.  And though I was angry and hurting and crying and unable to respond to everything coming through, I watched and I listened and I cried even more.   Because I was reminded all over again about the amazing people that are a part of MY CIRCLE.

My circle that is First Parents, Adoptees, Adoptive Parents.  That is full of those who came roaring in last night to fight for me and comfort me, to just be there holding me up through their words and actions when I wanted to fall apart. 

They were there because when you silence one of us, you silence all of us.

My circle is not limited to those who expect others to make them feel good.  It is not based on living the superficial existence society requires of us where it becomes so hard to form true and real friendships when everybody is so concerned about being and doing what is expected from them.

My circle is full of amazing, wonderful women  . . . and men . . . who, by the very act of daring to speak out about the darker side of adoption, had to break free from such restraints.  Who have to be real, with themselves, and others, in order to continue clashing against societies expectations of what adoption should be.

Some of the best friends and people I have in my life have come to me through this circle of those brave enough and real enough to stand up for change, no matter how many kicks and hits they are going to take along the way.

I have in my life what is true and what is real when it comes to the many friends and relationships I have formed since I first started to use my voice in an attempt to make change.  Unlike those who must live by societies standards, who are threatened by and feel they have a right to silence those who don’t fit into the mold of what they want to be and expect others to be, I have everything positive and supportive I could ever ask for in the very people they want only to silence.

I can take the hits, I can fight when another takes the same, because at the end of the day, I know what I have, what is best in my life, many of them will never know, will never experience, because they are still caught up in their “need” to feel good while those in my circle know it is impossible to expect others to make you feel good, or guarantee you will always feel good.  But they also know, when you don’t feel good, they will be there to hold you, to help you, to get you through.

And they won’t do it through lies.  They won’t follow the superficial expectations that dictate how it should be done.  They will do it from their heart, from who they really are.  How they really feel.

They will do it because . . . that’s just who they really are . . . imperfections and all.



P.S.  Please continue to  vote  over at the contest.  I would love to see all of these blogs make the Top 25 . . .
The Declassified Adoptee
Musings Of The Lame
Adoption Talk
Neither Here Nor There
iAdoptee
To Tell The Truth – Please Stand Up

Edited to Add . . .

One Option Means No Choice
I Will Pull This Blog Over


139 comments:

  1. I don't go to activities or places like Circle of Moms because it gets tiring to put up with all the ignorance and bigotry that exists there. After all these years, I finally can say - I have friends that get it - and I would like to count you as one.

    Because of that - if there is a contest out there that allows for the voices to be heard, regardless of viewpoint, let me know. Them I will join.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. I completely understand how important it is to have friends that get it. I'm thankful for that too and I definetly consider you one of them.

      When it comes to adoption, I doubt we'll ever find one that is truly accepting of all viewpoints.

      Delete
  2. WOW... that's utter and complete bull shit. And then, how is it that You are less supportive and positive than I am? Not buying that at all. I'm pissed..I'm uber pissed FOR you coz it's crap!

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    1. Thanks Claud! You're the best.

      I'm just guessing, but my last post on coercion that was seen by everyone clicking through from the contest probably ruffled some feathers and it wouldn't surprise me if some of them complained about it.

      Delete
  3. Hugs Cassi. I shut down my blog because I'm just tired of being both ignored and insulted by a-holes, and while if I had more of an inkling my blog made a difference, it certainly was becoming harder on me than beneficial. (Especially because when I write really hard stuff I really want to hear positive feedback and blogs aren't a good place to get the support you need.Unfortunately neither is real life, but uh... you know. )

    Anyway, keep writing. I want to create a project that would get morevisibility than what I was doing but also with visibility is all the hatred and cruelty and othering and people who "nicely" want to put you in your place. The nice adoption loving birthmother box, or the nice adoption loving adoptee box--- don't come out of there!!!

    ReplyDelete
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    1. (((Hugs))) I completely understand about your blog. Sometimes it can be so damn hard, especially when all you're trying to do is fight for change.

      I agree with you completly about them wanting to keep us in the "happy" box where they believe we belong. Nothing seems to make them madder then when we dare to come out of there.

      Delete
  4. Cassie ~ you were one of the first moms I found on the www who helped me through those first months of reunion, who supported me in ways you will never know. Because of your voice, I was able to find my own again. I am so very thankful for you and your blog ~ you continue to be a huge support to me.

    If your blog had not made it's way up to the top, I'm sure they would have ignored it. It will be interesting to see what will happen when any of the other truthful blogs make it to the top. Will they delete them all?

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    1. Ah, thanks Susie. That means the world to me to hear that.

      Yeah, I can't help but wonder if they will dare to remove the other blogs that are rising quickly on their list. Last I checked, Declassified was #2 and Musings was #4. I'm hoping they won't be stupid enough to try and remove either one of them.

      Delete
  5. They can remove you from their "circle" contest, but can't remove your blog, your truth from the internet. I am sure that just kills them. The children they covet just may happen upon it one day and read the TRUTH of what adoption is really about.

    Removing your blog is just proof positive of what they stand for; perpetuating the myth that adoption is all rainbows and sunshine. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

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    1. Exactly! My blog isn't going anywhere. And, yeah, I guess I just didnt have enough spouting of how wonderful adoption is for their taste. Don't plan to change that either.

      Delete
  6. Cassi you actually LIVE the mission statement of Circle of Moms. You try to make life easier for moms be educating and informing them of truth of adoption. You are a rich and authentic source of information for many of us who have experienced adoption. Circle of Moms talks the talk, but doesn't live up to their statement. Be glad you are not counted as one of them. Here is their mission statement for those who are interested.

    A Unique Mission
    Circle of Moms is dedicated to making the lives of moms easier and more enjoyable. We help moms connect, both to one another and to their families, to capture and share their children’s stories and to tap a rich and authentic source of advice and support: other moms.

    Pfffttt!

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Wow! They definetly have a strange way of offering that "authentic" source of information.

      Suppose they have their own definition for authentic just as they do for positive and supportive.

      Delete
  7. I am beyond saddened to see the removal of your blog from the "Circle". I write this as both a woman and a mother through adoption. The expression "its their loss" seems inadequate but true nonetheless.

    All voices should be heard and recognized and not just those of the big bullies on the block.

    For me? I will still be reading along (though this is my first time to comment) ~ your blog and many others from differing perspectives.

    I'm sorry. I feel I need to say it.

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  8. Cassi, I am so glad you have blogged about this. Because it sends a clear message regardless of their decision, they will not silence you or anyone else for that matter.

    All they do is expose themselves as the frauds they are. They only support what is accepted - therefore they are not really supportive at all because support embraces all aspects - even ones that do not meet society's accepted standards.

    Regardless of their reasons, this was a clear case of bullying. They gave no justifiable reason and it was inconsistent. What I feel happened is someone hasn't liked the truth of your most recent mosts and felt the need to bring your blog to the attention of the "Circle".

    Reminds me of school and the popular crowd who expel people if they don't do as they are told. Immature. Pathetic. And we thought we were dealing with adults... not so much.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Thanks Myst. For this and for what you wrote on your blog. It means so much to me.

      I'm guessing, like you, it might have had something to do with my last post and even though I only wrote about exactly what happens when they train others to counsel pregnant women, some didn't like it and complained that I didn't fit the criteria to be in their circle.

      And, yeah, in some ways it does feel like its right back to school days when somebody runs off to tell on you.

      Delete
    2. Always happy to support you Cassi. Keep speaking out - I guess it means people are listening if they feel the need to stoop to school yard tactics.

      Delete
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  10. Unfortunately, this is nothing new for us, is it? Can't rock the "everything about adoption is beautiful" boat. To look at the reality, well, NO ONE wants to face it. It shatters the illusion...plain and simple. I think deep down people might even know the truth, but we can't kill the "sacred cow" or bring the ugly side into the light. All this while I'm watching "The Little Couple" going through the homestudy process to adopt. Hmmm.

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    1. No. Not new at all. Like, I said, that was just my day to go through what we all go through over and over again.

      I think some do know the truth deep down inside and those of us who speak out frighten them because the last thing they want to do is look at adoption differently and from viewpoints that my challenge their own.

      Delete
    2. When you want something badly enough (a baby to adopt) it's amazing how one can justify/deny/hide from the truth about what adoption is, and what it does to the moms AND sometimes the children.

      I remember my social worker relaying to me how she told my daughter's amom that we tried everything we could to try and keep our baby, but we just "decided" adoption was the only fair and just thing we could do for her, and that amom just cried and cried. I thought to myself, then how in the hell did she pick up MY baby, and walk right on out of there with her?? She KNEW we wanted her. I guess it was justifiable though since we "decided" that adoption was best. UGH.

      Delete
  11. I was shocked to read this on iadoptee. I am also on the Top 25 list and while I blog about lots of things-some fluffy, some not I have always focused the "heavy lifting" on race/racism, transracial adoption and ethics/corruption/coercion but as it applies to international adoption. After exchanging email with iadoptee and reading some of the other blogs you have listed- I will be expanding my blog to look at issues that face domestic adoptees too. I will be voting for these blogs you list as well.

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    1. Thank you Momma C. I look forward to going over and reading your blog. I very much would love to add more blogs of adoptive parents to my blog roll. Especially from those who support adoptees in their rights and their stories. I'll also make sure I vote for your blog on my daily visit to the site.

      Delete
    2. Thanks so much- I am hoping to have the post about birth records up tomorrow or Friday at the latest. I want to make sure to really get my thoughts down before I post.

      Delete
    3. Cassi,
      I was thinking about this and your mention of reading her blog and talking about your blog list. I clearly remember not too long ago you had a post and you were clear on what you wouldn't add to your list but you also were clear that not everyone who is on your blog list agrees with you or you agree with them. I have seen that too when I go down what is listed. There are blogs that I don't bother to read there because I know I don't agree with them and I don't want to take the time to see what they are saying. But they are there because you believe in offering more than just one viewpoint and experience for others to read. And then you get kicked off a contest because your viewpoint doesn't match others. How wrong is that? Some people just really make me sick.

      -C-

      Delete
  12. For what it's worth...I think you are amazing Cassi. And I didn't need some silly "vote" button to know that either.

    Love you.

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    1. Ah Christina, thank you for this and for what you wrote on my blog. You're amazing!

      Delete
  13. Your blog is at the top of my most read blog lists. Removing your blog from the list of valid contenders really says ALOT about the folks who run that contest.

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    1. Thank you Reena! I've missed seeing you around here.

      Delete
  14. This is an outrage. And another example of what is wrong with the adoption industry.

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    1. Thank you Jennifer! The good thing is there areso many, like you, speaking up and sharing their different experiences to try and make a difference.

      Delete
    2. Cassi--

      If it weren't for blogging and finding your blog, plus the ones you've linked to, I don't know what I would do. It helps so much. A lot of my friends encouraged me to file a bar complaint against the attorney, but when I looked into that, it could open me up to getting sued by the attorney! Plus, this attorney has so much power in my state, it is unbelievable. She was so unethical, my own PTSD issues (not adoption related) have been triggered by the dynamics around the failed adoption. I CANNOT BELIEVE how unethical this attorney was. She was coercive with us--the prospective adoptive parents!
      Anyway, that's why the writing is so important. I wish I had found your blog before the experience we went through.
      Don't let the contest get you down. You are making a difference and it really really helps :)

      Delete
  15. That's ridiculous and I agree with everyone here - you are well-loved and respected - and don't need that poll to prove it.
    I agree with Myst that you were bullied and that is not acceptable.

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    1. Thank you so much, Trace. And yes it is starting to look like it was definetly a case of bullying in some ways. Someone didn't likemy blog didn't like thst I was in the number two spot and worked up her followers on Facebook in the very same day I was removed. And it wasn't just me, she included Amanda from Declassified Adoptee as well.

      Delete
  16. Your post on coercion was one of the best I've ever read...so proud of you and inspired by the truth you don't shrink back from. Circle of Moms should be ashamed because coercion exists big time in adoption and along with sealed records, proves that it is more about commodity than human rights. Hugs to you.

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    1. Peach,

      Thank you. Your words mean so much to me.

      I'm so glad to see you doing so good over there. Your voice needs to be heard.

      Delete
  17. I know I cannot give you any kind of formal award but if it is any consolation, I want you to know that I love your blog. You are one of the mothers who gets it. I cannot thank you enough for speaking out about the TRUTH of what adoption has done to so many of us.

    I watched an old movie, "A Few Good Men", on television recently. During a courtroom scene, Jack Nicholson's character says "You want the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!". Apparently, Circle of Moms can't handle the truth either.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. All of you ladies are so amazing. Thank you so much for the kind words. I will never be able to truly express how much you mean to me.

      So many don't want to hear any truths that might be different from their own. It's easier for them, I think, just to shut themselves off and refuse to listen.

      Delete
  18. I really find it odd that this occurred since the 5 blogs you mentioned here are certainly not "pro-adoption" imo. Removing you is sad and pathetic.

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    1. It's actually starting to make a littlemore sense now. Like I said to Trace, it looks like I upset somebody who didn't like my blog, or Amanda's, and I'm guessing she got her followers worked up enough to complain.

      Delete
  19. I have written them, asking for you to be reinstated (I was the #2 spot last year). If they refuse, I'm removing my blog from the running, and publicly sharing my adamant disagreement with their decision. I told them as much in my email.

    I'll then start plugging the list above with all I've got. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  20. I was on the 'Top 25' list last year and will do the same as Christine. This is horseshit.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Removing you was incredibly cruel and misguided on their part.

    I am tired of all of this "pro-adoption" and "anti-adoption" crap that people whip out as if being one vs. the other is better or worse or makes any sense at all when it comes right down to it. Why can't we all just be people who have our own unique experiences and opinions--whatever they may be. I don't feel threatened by what anyone else thinks, why people get all up in arms because Cassi or I say something "negative" about adoption is beyond me.

    People treat adoption that it's that really overly-emotional aunt that's always dishing out personal advice when she visits on holidays as if no one can say anything to her or else they'll just devastate her sensitive feelings. Adoption is anybody's aunt. It's not even a person. We're not going to hurt it's feelings. Good lord.

    I am sorry you were removed, Cass. There's no sense to it. Just unwarranted cruelty.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Thanks for posting this, and for raising your voice against what is the dominant discourse the aim of which is the stomping out of all resistance. Ironically, we at Transracial Eyes got a similar obnoxious, condescending, dismissive, letter; we should see it as a metaphor for adoption in and of itself, where a dominant class needs to use others only to reinforce their sense of self. Further irony is in this post that was on our site a while back, where we discuss the "The Silencing of the Adoptee Voice". The height of irony? The letter I use as an example in this post was written by the "mom" who was formerly the #1 blog in their skewed election.

    We are on the side of truth and what is right. And truth will out when all is said and done.

    Peace,

    Daniel

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  23. Cassi, I'm printing this out and posting next to my computer. I'm glad for you that you're drawing strength from staying true. Most times, that's all any of us have.

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  24. What a bunch of idiots they are over there. I'm boycotting the whole thing.

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  25. Sheesh. If your blog is not supportive or positive, why on earth is mine still in the running?!? Cassi, your voice is so powerful and supportive to those of us who are trying to effect positive change. That's OUR circle. It is a circle based on truth not spin and fantasy. Reality will eventually prevail. We just have to keep speaking out. You inspire me!

    ReplyDelete
  26. I am shocked and appalled by this treatment of you and, by implication, of all of us who choose to talk about the reality of adoption.

    I think it is just an indication of the lobbying that goes on. I am sure they got emails because somebody didn't like your "adoption truth."

    Like someone said above, I couldn't understand why some were still in and yours was out.

    God bless the internet and the support we can offer one another. As research for a post a was perusing the original essay on the personal and the political. This treatment is an example of a group trying to say YOU have a problem but we all know - it's not us, it's them.

    Very sad. Doesn't the US constitution say something about Congress passing no law that will restrict free speech. I guess they haven't read it over at C of M's.

    Stay Strong.

    UM

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  27. This is awful and I'm so sorry that this happened to you. I'm an adoptive mom and I often feel like a terrible one because I talk about how hard it's been for us all post-adoption. I refuse to buy into or support the "Adoption Makes Everything Better" ideology that goes around and I know many APs that avoid me like the plague. I've learned a lot from the first mom and adult adoptee blogs that I've read and I'm sorry (more) respect isn't being given to you.

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  28. I'm with Christine. This is absolutely mind-boggingly awful. I am emailing them as well, and if they refuse to reinstate you, I'm pulling my blog. Your blog is the first "first mother" blog I began reading, and you gently and patiently helped me to grow as a person, a Christian and an adoptive parent over the course of several years. I still have a long way to go, but I am a much different person and a better mom to my daughters because of you. If that's not "supportive and positive," then I don't know what the heck is.

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  29. I just want to add my support of you in this situation. It really does not make sense to me why you were removed from the list.

    I have never commented on any of the adoption related blogs, but I daily read many of them. I have no real connection to adoption -- besides my great grandmother being adopted in 1900 due to her mother dying after childbirth--but it was no family secret and she knew her biological dad and siblings--long story! Anyway, I just had to comment and let you know how much I value your blog. Your post on coercion in adoption is the best I have read on that topic and I emailed a link to it to my sisters because I felt so strongly that people should know about it. I want you to know that you are making a difference! My eyes have been opened to the problems in adoption and I try to share with people as well--to get people to start thinking about it from other perspectives than the mainstream "adoption is the best thing ever!" perspective. Anyway, I will continue to read your blog. Thank you so much.

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  30. I just found out today what circle of moms even is. Hmm... Not that I am involved with it in anyway (obviously) if I wrote more open and honestly about my experiences, they would probably do the same to me. lol!

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  31. I came to your blog just today by way of my fascinating life, and I like what I see. Keep up the good work, and screw Circle of Moms (which I'd never heard of before, either).

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  32. Did you see they are cancelling the contest completely? Seems like the easy way to silence the bloggers who were blogging about what they did- many that were in the top 25.

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  33. I am a birth mother who has a very different view on adoption then you do. While I may not agree with everything written on your blog, I find it disgusting that they wouldn't allow you to be part of this.

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  34. Wow, I saw a link to your blog on Facebook, and I have never read anything quite so negative about adoption. I agree that there are some domestic agencies and lawyers who are less than 100% truthful, but to say that birthmothers have no choices and are coerced into placing their babies for adoption is so far from what I've experienced as an adoptive mom, that just reading those words shocked me. My sister actually placed a baby for adoption 28 yrs ago, and when she was in the hospital, after having spent hours meeting with a very compassionate adoption social worker and being firm in her decision to place her child for adoption, a well-meaning hospital social worker actually came in to her room and said, "No, you don't want to give your baby away, do you?" Really, there are errors on both sides. I'm the adoptive mom of two 16 year old boys, and I know for a fact that neither of their birthmoms were in any way forced to place their babies for adoption. In fact, one son's bmom looked through the phone book and called several adoption agencies until she found one that would work with her toward the goal of adoption (when her son was 4, she realized she could no longer parent him)without having the first goal be family preservation as she realized that her son would likely be in & out of foster care for an extended period of time. I'm sorry that you have had a painful adoption experience, and I acknowldge that there are painful aspects to adoption. Yet, what I do know is true in my sons' lives and in our family is that what Satan intended for evil, God used for good, and adoption has been a true gift to our family. If you asked either of my sons, I'm sure that they would both agree. And no, I have not "brain washed" them, and I would be totally supportive if and when they would like to find their birth parents.

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    1. Gorca, you do realize that calling women the "bm" word is demeaning and also extremely bigoted. Using this term is no longer going to be tolerated. It will only expose your own bigotry, sorry, no more. We are MOTHERS. Adopter usurpers can come under some "prefix" it's your turn to take some of the adoption burden. We are healing and being set free. Adoption fairyland is crumbling like the Berlin wall. Get used to it.

      Delete
  35. Thank you Gorca for the typical minimalizing natural mothers and adult adoptees hear every day...Don't speak for us, we have our own voices, thank you.

    Mara

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    Replies
    1. ...and I am an adult adoptee who doesn't need you to speak on my behalf Mara!

      Happy adoptee

      Delete
  36. Gorca...do you really think your sons would tell you the truth? I told everyone that would listen to me back in the day that I was happy as a pig in sh*t that I was adopted. But it was a lie. I was a people pleaser and I'd say anything that I thought was what would make them happy.

    Your sons have their own story. It's theirs to tell. Not yours.

    Just like Cassi's story is HER story. Her story to tell...not her story for YOU to judge.

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    1. I am a 43 yr old adoptee and happy with that fact...So maybe it's your point of view that's off and ridiculous

      Delete
    2. I am a 43 yr old adoptee and happy with that fact...So maybe it's your point of view that's off and ridiculous

      Delete
  37. Dear Gorca. Put a sock in it. You have no idea of what your son's first Mothers went through, nor do you know how your sons feel about adoption. God has nothing to do with adoption, people do. Keep your sermon in church.

    Cassi, Im so proud of you, and Im sorry that these idiots have treated you this way. It's rather typical, isn't it? Adoptees and first Moms are constantly pushed to the back of the bus. The adopters and the industry have all the power. Times are changing. Adopters need to listen to adult adoptees and show more respect for first Mothers. You have never spoken for us, and you never will.

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    1. Wow! "put a sock in it" coming from the group fighting for freedom of speech!!!! Circle of hypocrites is more like it!

      Delete
  38. I don't know what happened, perhaps it was an adopter-oriented contest. But I am thankful for what you write. I quit trying to enter contests long ago. I know that my writing is not mainstream-media friendly and I am okay with that. It is freeing to say what you want and not particularly care whether or not anyone is listening and/or approving.

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    Replies
    1. Oh yes...it must have been those evil adopters!

      Delete
  39. Cassi's blog is about her experience of loss and coersion. What in the world does that have to do with your sister, Gorca? You just said you agree some lawyers and and agencies are unethical but can't acknowledge Cassi might have been victimized by one of them?

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  40. As an adoptive parent, thank you for sharing your story. I have changed immensely for those courageous enough (YOU) to share their stories and experiences and give us the truth about them. I am not the same person I was five years ago. The truth hurts, the truth heals, and knowledge is power. Only real change can come from truth.

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  42. "Yet, what I do know is true in my sons' lives and in our family is that what Satan intended for evil, God used for good and adoption has been a true gift to our family. If you asked either of my sons, I'm sure that they would both agree."

    What Satan intended for evil?? You have go to be kidding me!? So you are saying the children you adopted come from Evil and you are oh so saintly, so your god rewarded so special and wonderful YOU? Thanks for the laugh. I needed that...

    No, Gorca, they way you paint natural parents is evil and people like you are all that is wrong with adoption. People like you are the one's I personally have in mind when I speak of coersion and "brainwashing" (and yes you damn sure are brainwashing those children. The aforementioned quote above clarifies that.)

    Guess what else, Gorca? They just may agree that adoption is not such a "gift" on down the line if they happen to one day get out of your manipulative grasp and find the ability to think for themselves.

    You'd be "supportive" if and when they want to find their natural parents. Sure you will. That's what they all say until that time comes. If you are anything like my son's adopters (and you sound like the spitting image of them) you will show your true colors and how you really feel about the natural families of the children you covet.

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  43. Okay, so I WAS sitting on my hands...

    Wow, you have never read anything so negative gorca? What 'la la land do you live in?' Cassi's blog is not negative unless you don't like hearing the truth of what happens in the industry and her own experience. How this relates to your friend and sister, I won't know but I am happy neither of them had to go through what Cassi and many of us have been through.

    You have no clue what really goes on or you have chosen to stay ignorant - typical status for an adopter (general - not all, some are actually really enlightened, just not you). Oh and GOD has nothing to do with adoption - that is just how humans justify an evil institution. Adoption isn't the good you silly fool, adoption is the evil... the good which most are too scared to even think of, is to help families stay together - help mothers take care of their kids - be the village needed to raise a child and all that. Separating a child from their mothers using the guillotine of adoption is NOT the good of God - that is the most outlandish belief around. Love how the God-botherers (as in those bothering God) love to twist things around to suit themselves.

    So gorca, get used to being shocked. It may just mean your rose glasses have slipped a little and you have seen a does of the truth. You don't have to like it - but it doesn't change things.

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  44. Susie Q, adoptive mother, said: "The truth hurts, the truth heals, and knowledge is power. Only real change can come from truth."

    And your children are all the better for your willingness to seek out the Truth.

    Cassi - You are a brave warrior mama and should be proud your story and your son's story is at the epicenter of the incident that brought these bloggers to their knees. Screw the Circle of Morons (as Linda so dubbed COM), I am grateful to count you in my Circle of Friends.

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  45. Sigh. Just because *one* person never met anyone who was coerced, that means *no one* was *ever* coerced? Are you f'ing kidding me? The logic of some readers defies explanation, or, more properly, doesn't function.

    Cassi's story is Cassi's story. It's also the story of my mother, who was 22-years-old, and a college graduate. She says that she had a *choice*--perhaps--but her family and society were all very much weighing in against her. The agency and the hospital didn't even let her hold me or see me in the NICU after I was born. That's not humane! I call *that* "Satan's work"! The agency told my mother that my aparents would be with me right after she left. Another lie (more work of Satan!).

    Adoption, as it exists, is broken and too open to corruption. APs need to stop taking criticism of the SYSTEM so personally. If we worked together, we could CHANGE the system and make things better for children and families.

    It sickens me that Cassi, who is incredibly supportive of adoptees (who are supposedly at the heart of adoption), was singled out by Circle of Moms as "unsupportive," and now there is a backlash against her here from people who don't even have the courtesy to read and respect her story. I am sadly not surprised. Scared people cannot read or think.

    Cassi is working with adult adoptees to try to change the system, to give us access to our original birth certificates, to stop coercion of mothers. We ALL should stand together on this, rather than pretend that everything is all rosy. If it is for *your* family; fine. But it isn't for many others, and your children may have a different story to tell you one day. Please don't be complacent.

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  46. Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that a prominent adoption attorney got arrested (or found guilty) of child trafficking? We cannot ignore the corruption in the adoption industry. I get that some people are going to be threatened by writers who expose some difficult truths, but come on! It seems to me that lies and exploit exist everywhere around mothers and babies whenever there is a profit to be gained. Adoption, abortion, infertility treatments--because so much is money driven, people are too often violated. Women are being told they're infertile, even when they are not. Women are told they cannot parent their children when they can. It's a crazy time in the history of reproduction. The most basic human experience has been totally swept up by the greedy. Enough is enough!

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  47. I get so sick of adoptoraptors blaming God for adoption. Did God intend for me to be adopted by a pedophile, alcoholic, mentally ill man? HELL NO!!!

    -Mara

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    1. Although I feel bad about what you have posted, you don't have to be adopted to run into those situations.

      In fact, I am sure that in some cases, children have been saved from this type of situation by being adopted by a family who aren't alcoholic pedophiles....the shoe fits on both feet. Unless you are suggesting that only adoptive parents are pedophile drunks...which would be a stupid thing to say.

      Delete
  48. Mara, I certainly don't presume to speak for all birthmoms or adoptees- I am merely making the point that there are two sides to every issue, and to make the generalization that all birthmoms who place their babies for adoption are coerced is grossly unfair. There are certainly adoption lawyers and agencies that are corrupt, just as there are many who are ethical and honest.

    CDH, if you read my original post, you will see that I did acknowldge Cassie's pain, and I am not saying that there isn't pain in adoption. I don't mean to minimize the pain. The purpose of my post was simply to lend some balance to the discussion. This seems to be the wrong forum for that to take place.

    Marginalia, I do not claim that no birthmom has ever been coerced into placing her child for adoption. I simply shared my story. It just happens to be quite different from what Cassie has experienced. Again, attempting to show a different perspective. I guess I was naive to expect more civil discourse.

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    1. Gorca, from your first post: "to say that birthmothers have no choices and are coerced into placing their babies for adoption is so far from what I've experienced as an adoptive mom" Therein lies the point...you are an ADOPTIVE MOM. Of course you wouldn't see or experience what FIRST MOM's do/have. Yours is a very one-sided view, and of course it will rattle some cages. It's bad enough if even ONE "birth" mother has been coerced, lied to, tricked, manipulated, whatever word you choose to use into losing her child. As you can probably see, it has happened to COUNTLESS numbers of us...countless. And guess what? My "birth" daughter, although she loves her aparents, told me a few years ago that she felt like she belonged with us, her original family, and wishes she never had to be given up. I won't say that every adoptee has those feelings, but MY DAUGHTER DOES. Nothing justifies the loss. I seriously doubt God would want her, the innocent party in all of this, to be as hurt and confused as she has been...and our adoption has been fully open since she was 9. I will never believe God celebrates families being torn apart, just to create one for someone else. That line of thinking sickens me because it makes God too responsible for a man-made, corrupted, MONEY DRIVEN business.

      Sometimes, the truth just plain hurts.

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    2. Gorca said: "you will see that I did acknowldge Cassie's pain"

      Really? From the get go you harped on her about being so "negative." I don't recall one line in your post that acknowledged anything but the fact that your god took the children you adopted away from EVIL so your saintly self could play mommy to them.

      You truly do not speak for any natural mothers or adoptees. Please don't forget that.

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    3. No. No. Gorce, we do not use the BM word. That's a bad word. Go sit and think about what you said. Write out 100 times. I will not use the bm word, I will not use the bm word. We must honor mothers Gorce. I believe God set that rule up. It's ok He loves bigots too! ;O)

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    4. You are right Gorca but you'll never find a forum to voice your opinions with these fanatics who immediately attack upon hearing a different point of view, exactly like how they are claiming to be victimized by society.

      A happy adoptee

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  49. Wow, just wow. Obviously the comments here were just to “positive and supportive”…Lets not be baited into giving them what they want…

    What I really think is so beautiful is there is such a positive outpouring of love and support for Cassi and free speech. This has in many ways turned out to be a fantastic week in blogville...let's appreciate it for what it is...a time when many came together...to support each other. XOXOXO Ya'll!

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  50. gorca, civil discourse?? Like your first sentence? Way to go in trying to "offer balance". Yeah right.

    From the moment your fingers started typing you were out to tell Cassi she was wrong - you were not trying to offer anything else. In fact balance, as you brought up, is here where Cassi's voice and others like those you addressed in your comment above. The adoptees and mothers who will not accept the accepted view of adoption.


    No, you were not trying to offer balance. You were trying to justify adoption - bringing God into the mix and making it out that adoption is ordained by him (sorry, I don't think you know your bible and its original settings all too well).

    I re read your original comment and there wasn't much in the way of acknowlegment of Cassi's experience. More than anything, there was dismissal. Because to say you acknowledge it and then proceed with a justification is not really acknowledging it, it is just paying lip service which we can all see straight through here.

    And by the way, adoption is not a gift. It is an institution based on loss, trauma and pain. Seeing it as a gift and celebrating it that way is to celebrate the pain in another's life which is plain gross.

    How sad that little boy's mother, who had tried to raise him for four years, could not find someone who would help her and her son stay together. What a tragedy that was and to see you calling it a gift is really quite awful. The true gift would have been to bring the mother with her son into your family and add to your family that way... but no, one person's heartbreak is another person's joy in adoption and that is why it is all so wrong.

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    1. Thanks, Myst. You explained much better what I was trying to say above. And yes, how terribly sad for a FOUR YEAR OLD to lose his Momma! I can only imagine how confusing and frightening and TRAUMATIZING that would be for a small child. :( Wonder if THAT was "God's plan" all along?? Hmmm...??

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    2. Totally Amy - how can anyone think that it would be in God's plan for a child who has been with his mother for four years to lose her? My four year old would be davastated and traumatised if he lost me now - it hurts to even think how this poor little boy must have been feeling :( No, it was not God's plan for this mother and child to be separated - it was a tragedy and yet gorca cannot see that.

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    3. Not to beat a dead issue on this "God's plan" theory but it sets me off BIG TIME because my daughter's aparents have been spewing this nonsense since the very beginning. Apparently, it's not only God who was behind the conception and adoption of my daughter but good old St. Therese...so much so that they partially named my daughter after her. Amom told me they would pray every night to St. Therese to bring their baby to them. For them, the proof that THEIR prayer was answered was the fact that basically 9 months to the day that they were approved to adopt, my daughter was given to them. Apparently she was conceived at the time they began praying in earnest to St. Therese. Can anyone, ANYONE understand how that would make first parents feel to think that God or St. Therese would be behind 2 teens getting pregnant and having their baby ripped out of their arms and placed into the adoptive parent's arms simply because they prayed to a Saint, and I'm sure to God Himself as well?? What kind of cruel God is that???

      Sorry Cassie for this side rant...the God thing just makes me want to cry because I never understood how I, at 17, could have made God feel the need to punish me like He has...assuming He was behind the whole thing of course. Keep talking girl...you know you're getting to them when they want to shut you up! ;)

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    4. Amy, my owns child's adopter said and I quote "I strongly believe that god allowed the conception of this child for us or some other infertile couple." My son said to me, after I found him and told him that I regretted everything that "god puts us where we need to be."

      That I allowed that woman to adopt my child after she said such a thing goes to show you what kind of mental space I was in 22 years ago, when I was scared and vulnerable. I was as brainwashed then as my son is now. I am horrified that I allowed this to adopt my child. Look what trusting that has caused me: to be exiled from my child when I was promised I would not be, to have been treated like an unwelcome and uninvited intruder after I found him when he became of age (when I was promised openness with updates and pictures of him until he turned 18). They stopped communicating with me when he was SEVEN. So much for being such "good Christians". I have turned away from religion altogether after how these people treated me, the woman who lost while they gained.

      Anyone who uses their god as a cop out to treat the mother of the child they covet abhorrently are despicable. Deep down they know they are and perhaps their "god" does too...

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    5. Amy, I totally understand why you feel this way about the whole God issue. I was even told, in not so many words but the meaning was very, very clear, that my rape occurred so the adopters could have a child.

      The fact so many people use faith and religion as a crutch is really a cowardice thing. Many use it as a cover up for what they are doing. I feel most of them know they could be doing more to help a mother keep her child but when people are so desperate, they will stop at nothing to get what they want. Again, I am so very sorry you were hurt by people who hid behind a religious institution.

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    6. See? How on earth could anyone, IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, actually BELIEVE that "God" would make someone in a vulnerable, unprepared state conceive a child solely to benefit someone else?? I've always contended that if He was that much of a "micromanager," He would have just made the pamom pregnant and cut out the middlemen...so to speak. Wouldn't that make more sense?

      My daughter said the same thing to me that your son did to you...EVEN THOUGH she is not happy with being adopted, she held onto the "God allowed this to happen" idea. I called her out...asked her why God would choose a 16 and 17 year old to carry that kind of burden for the rest of their lives? She said "Well, I don't know but that's just been what's been drilled into my head for years." At least she can admit that, and maybe it started her on a path to examining the truth. I don't know because our relationship has been off and on for various reasons and it's a topic I haven't brought up in quite some time. To hear "It was God's will" from the adoptee who even admits she doesn't appreciate being adopted and that she feels she belongs with her original family takes me to the edge! I guess it's the only way she can make sense of everything. For that, my heart breaks because it's also a very heavy burden for her to have to carry.

      I'm sorry, Stephanie. I'm so tired of hearing how adoptive parents treat us like the enemy...especially after not living up to their end of the open adoption agreement! All that AFTER our God is turned against us to justify adoption...just another betrayal. I'll just never believe it was His intention.

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    7. Myst...So now "rape" is mandated by God too if that's what it takes to get a baby to someone else?! Sicker than sick. It's amazing how God's name is used to justify horrific acts.

      ((hugs))

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  51. Never heard of circle of moms. Sounds more like a vicious cycle: ignorance is indeed bliss....for some...for a time.

    As mothers who have lost our flesh and blood to the adoption industry many of us know all too well how denial has impacted us. Those who adopt infants from new mothers will never know the grief we feel, but if they deny their grief, our grief, the grief of the children they adopt, they too will suffer eventually, and more importantly the children caught in the middle will suffer. So many of us on the loss side of adoption have found that denial is not the best coping mechanism, yet here we go again with new - adoptive - mothers who want to deny part of the story. Round and round we go - the cycle continues with a new twist.

    We really do need to address the tired old saying, "but adoption is DIFFERENT today!" because, yes, indeed it is different in many ways, none of them better, none of them less destructive, none of them less abusive. Now we have PAPs and APs with information from adoptees and first mothers, at their finger tips, and they still would rather turn a blind eye than deal.

    Cassie, your posts are so clear, insightful and representative of my own loss in the early 80s. I am very proud to have you speak for me, for many of us with similar stories and hope that this hurtful (and disgusting) event has shown you how much you are respected and admired.

    Carol

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  52. Disgusted but not surprised by this or by the competition being cancellled! Now there's a worried group. Groups like this simply reinforce what is strong and good in the solidarity of those who believe in the truth of telling what adoption is really about. Those of us who will not run with the myths get to keep our integrity.This has been such a strengthening event. Hang in their Cassi, we all love you.

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  53. Considering where we outliers started, it was amazing to me that you made the cut at all--even for a while. I think you have to see what happened as a badge of honor. I am sure they got complaints about your take on the glories of adoption--after all, it's all good, right?

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  54. All I would like to say is that the amount of compassion towards Cassi is astonishing - and encouraging.

    Keep your head up high. :)

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  55. Dear Gorca,

    Do you know what saddens me most about your post?

    For many days I have watched something amazing come out of what happened. People have come together, crossed over lines that used to keep us divided and they have started to actually talk and listen to one another.

    I have been overwhelmed, in very best of ways, by everything that has happened. From the tremendous support to the steps toward each other rather than apart.

    The posts here and around the world of adoption blogging have been so comforting and encouraging and yet you chose this post, this topic, to try to bring back the division that truly only causes more harm than good.

    It saddens me that you thought it appropriate to come here, to this post that has been full of such amazing things between so many, and try to bring back the same old "us" against "them" arguments that cause the lines to be drawn in the first place.

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  56. Cassie,
    Before coming across your blog, I wasn't aware that there was even an "us" and "them" mentality in the adoption world as I have never experienced that with either of my 2 adoptions. I kind of stumbled across your blog by accident, and when I read your post about coercion, I felt compelled to respond because it is so far from what I have experienced. (Notice, I am referring only to MY experience, not the larger world of adoption- I don't claim to be an expert). I certainly did not intend to stir up such a hornet's nest, and I'm now sorry that offered an opinion at all. I honestly don't feel like I was disrespectful in my original post. On the other hand, the responses I have received have been personal, sarcastic, and down right hateful. As it appears that only posters who agree with the majority here are welcome to share their opinions, I will take Linda's advice, and "put a sock in it".

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    1. So now it is those who speak out against the adoption industry (e.g. coercion and the like) are the one's who are "sarcastic and hateful"? Reread you original comment and tell us who was being "sarcastic and hateful". You came here to let us all know that your experience was so wonderful, so Cassi and everyone else here who speaks out against this industry write the "most negative things you have ever read." Hmmmm. Very interesting.

      You sure sound very defensive about "coercion" and how non-coercive "your adoptions" were. Makes one wonder.

      Cassi, you are so right. All it takes is one person to turn something that has been so supportive and uniting into something ugly. She accomplished what she set out to do. Perhaps if people like this are ignored they will go away and stay away, or "put a sock in it".

      Delete
    2. gorca, how was your first comment anything but disrespectful? I think what made it worse was your whole God part of your post. And the tone.

      Of course there is a them and us in adoption - created by the buyer (aka adopter). Adoption is a lucrative business which has harvested baby after baby for those who are willing to pay top dollar for the womb fresh child of another mother.

      The mothers and adoptees have been marginalised and shut up for far too long. There are adoptive parents out there who are willing to learn and do "get" it but for the most part, we deal with closed minded people who feel they are/were entitled to our children which of course is preposterous.

      Adoption is an instution created on the premise of loss. Regardless of what an adopter gains - the child and his/her family lose so much more than we were meant to cope with. Sure there may be those who willingly chose adoption but they are a very small minority.

      I know you feel attacked as do we (welcome to the real world of adoption) but I hope you will take the time to read more posts and dig a little deeper to find out more.

      Delete
    3. Or maybe you are all so self absorbed with your negative experiences that you all are unable to compute a positive adoption experience.

      A happy adoptee!

      Delete
  57. "Before coming across your blog, I wasn't aware that there was even an "us" and "them" mentality in the adoption world as I have never experienced that with either of my 2 adoptions."

    And you are raising adopted children?????? No, seriously. Are you really admitting out loud and in public you never seriously contemplated there are folks out there who aren't happy with the loss of their natural family and their heritage? That there might be mothers who have been coerced, lied to, and used by the adoption industry? That in this day and age, you never once thought to examine what life is like on the OTHER side of adoption constellation and Cassi's blog is the first such exposure to it? Seriously?? Your freakin' adoption agency dropped the proverbial ball.

    Educate, thyself, woman and not just about the rainbows and farting unicorn part of adoption most women over at Circle of Moms write about, either. I suggest you start with the collected works of Betty Jean Lifton, Nancy Verrier, and others who right about healing from adoption wounds. Then start reading the blogs written by first mothers and ADULT adoptees, even if they make your adoptive mother's heart quake.

    Whether you want to believe it or not, your adoptees will grow up into ADULTS one day and may (gasp!!!!) seek out a relationship with members of their natural family. As the keeper of their childhood experiences, it is your ABSOLUTE DUTY to learn all you can to help your children uncover and embrace **their** authentic selves (which means you don't get to remake them in YOUR image).

    So while you might decide to "put a sock in it" (your choice), perhaps you can stop by amazon.com along the way and order a few of those books to add to your adoption reading library.

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  58. You're right, Gorca. We don't put up with people who try to dismiss us and shame us. Your original post was disgusting.

    Buh-bye...

    PS: You weren't talking about YOUR adoptions, you were speaking for the natural mothers and the children of YOUR adoptions.

    -Mara

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    1. Hypocritical and rude Mara!

      A happy adoptee

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  59. Cassi, I don't understand what they are complaining about, you were always so positive about YOU adopting YOUR son... But that is I guess the great fear dark of adopters, their children going back, you are no matter what you say, just by existing you represent adoption's grim reaper, call it annulment or adopting back, but their "Forever family" is not stronger than a real family, it can just as easily be destroyed by adoption, and they might become "that woman".

    Don't take it personal.

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  60. That would be "write" about adoption, not "right" about it. (Where is my editor when I need her!?)

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  61. I feel like I should say something here. I have been where Gorca is, and I understand her comment. Two years ago when I first started reading adoption blogs from perspectives OTHER than adoptive parents, I was shocked to read such a stark, contrasting opinion from the ones I had read. I did not realize that not everyone supported adoption or had such a "happy" experience. I was guilty of lumping the "opposing" views into a negative, bitter group. I have since come to understand that,as in anything, there are many perspectives, and all are valid and crucial so we can learn, change and reform.

    I think Gorca was just expressing her surprise at Cassi's experiences, not purposefully trying to offend or diminish her story. She was just trying to say, "Wow, I didn't know this side of adoption!". Instead of criticizing her, it would be better to say something more like, " I'm glad you found this blog, I hope it broadens and deepens your perspective of adoption." I know I have changed from reading each of your blogs (I've read most of the blogs of the commenters already, and I'm always expanding my reading), and I will continue to read them because I am a better person because I have learned to see more than just a "happy-go-lucky" side of things.

    I'm sorry if I offend anyone, it's not my purpose; just trying to clarify where we adoptive parents come from. It's hard for all of us whenever we realize that what we'd known all along isn't necessarily the "norm" or the "right way."

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    1. Susie Q,

      I completely understand what you are trying to say and that you aren't trying to offend anyone with your comment. I know you were sharing your own insight to help not harm.

      I won't take away that Gorca may have been shocked by what she read here. I won't even assume that the fact that she hit on just about every sensitive spot she could was done intentionally. Perhaps it was a first reaction to what she read. Unfortunately that first reaction came out very much as an attack which is always going to bring in the responses from those who have lived so long being attacked, discredited or outright ignored.

      The first reaction to an attack is defense while the first reaction to questioning is response. Does that make sense?

      Yes, if Gorca is really interested in learning and reading I will fully support her in doing so, while suggesting that she might take a cue from you and your comment here to get a true, honest response from others.

      There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with saying, "I didn't know." But for Gorca, it seems, to me, that it is more of a need to put us in our place than to truly try to learn from each other.

      I don't know. I could be just as wrong, as well. I just wish she wouldn't have brought it here, now when this post was full of so much proof of the kinder side of human beings.

      Delete
    2. I agree with Cassi about welcoming true opening of eyes and surprise. There is much to adoption that the mainstream media and society at large do not discuss or touch upon. It's an industry based on making money, too often, and not about the children who are meant to be at the heart of it. Agencies and the NCFA want people to think that adoptive families are all that adoptees need, and that first families make courageous "sacrifices." It's all part of a tightly constructed marketing plan. The NCFA exists to protect the industry's interests in Washington, D.C.

      I understand that the process of changing one's opinion can be slow. But adoptees and first mothers are asked again and again to put up AP outbursts telling us that we're angry and bitter and anti-adoption (often when we are none of these things), and to treat APs with kid gloves. I suppose it's taking the high road to be gentle and bodhisattva-like. But at some point my vault of patience is exhausted. Many people don't listen to kind, sweet messages, and can easily brush them off as someone else's experience. "That's not the case with *our* 'birth'mother," or "Our children won't grow up to be like you, because you clearly had a troubled childhood with parents who didn't love you enough."

      I am sick of being told to sit nicely at the adult table, to mind my manners, and to speak in a language that appeals to the dominant class (i.e., APs). I *am* an adult. I am educated, and I am sick of being spoken down to, and being told that "positive" adoption experiences deserve equal air time with our "bitter, angry, negative" ones. Of course adoption experiences run the gamut! But the "positive" stories form the *dominant* discourse. I want the stories of loss and coercion to be understood in the same way, and not have to be defended as outliers belonging to aberrant individuals.

      Please don't ask adoptees to treat APs with kid gloves. We *all* have to try to be respectful, and that means not diminishing the experiences of others by saying, "Oh, but remember, some adoptions are happy!" or "Coercion runs both ways!" or "Look how beautifully it worked out for me and my kids!" Believe me, we know how complicated adoption is.

      Delete
    3. Totally what Cassi and Ms. M above said.

      Susie Q, I do appreciate where you are coming and I agree with you for the most part. In gorca's case though, I do not see someone who wanted to learn at all. It isn't like adoptive parents are rare around here - there have been those that are willing to read, to empathise and learn. But not gorca. Her first post was not from the perspective of someone who was willing to be open minded. From her first comment through to unrelated stories and talk about God... none of that was open but rather telling Cassi off. There are ways of responding to show one is open minded - gorca did not show this AT ALL in her original comment.

      Delete
  62. All of you,

    Thank you for your replies. I really appreciate them, for it helps me see things from where you are coming and your experiences. Thank you for not shutting me out. I sincerely appreciate it.

    I have been, truly, where Gorca is and not too long ago. I might have made that same reply. I have been at the other end of your defenses, and it truly hurt because I did not understand(not saying you have to apologize or anything, just sharing my own experiences). I have grown so much, and until recently, I didn't dare to leave a comment on blogs until recently when I finally felt like I might be able to word things without be defensive or offensive. I still have to check and recheck myself every time. I can be very naive and ignorant, but not because I don't want to know, just because I don't know. So, long story short, thank you for helping me in such a constructive way to know how to do that.

    I agree about the kid gloves. I agree that it has been TOO long for your voices to be heard. I'm sorry that so many people try to silence you. Your perspectives are indeed very important, even when they differ from mine. In fact, I've gained more from adoptee blogs and mothers that have relinquished that anything else. I agree that agencies and websites (COM) tend to paint a happy picture of adoption. How will anything change without looking at ALL sides?

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  63. I am grateful to the CofM censorship; otherwise, I would never have found your blog! I haven't read it yet, but I'm glad you are here. I'm an adoptive mother and value first mom and adult adoptee blogs that provide me with much-needed perspective and provide a place for my children to come as they grow up. THANK YOU AND CARRY ON!

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  64. don't stop writing. :)

    there are many ap's who are growing and learning to be better parents to children who were adopted by listening to first parents and adoptees. i agree with the previous poster...being censored brought me here.

    adoptive parents who do not want to realize the less than happy side of adoption and do not want to acknowledge first parents and adoptees and their own realities will have a tough road ahead of them when their children are old enough to start asking questions. good luck to ap's who choose to bury their head in the sand and pretend that there is no loss and no down side in adoption.

    *mom to 6 via adoption*

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  65. Wow Cassi I don’t even know what to say. I stumbled across your blog yesterday and have spent the last 24 hours unable to tear myself away from it, more and more horrified with every word that I read.

    I don’t have any experience of adoption, but I just had to stop by and say that I’ve been reading back through old posts, and the heated debates in the comments section, and I really feel that most of the pro-adoption commenters are massively missing the point of what you are trying to say.

    The pain and trauma of adoption for first mothers seems self-evident to me, even for those who believe it was in the best interests of their child. The intensity of the love and protectiveness you feel for your child when they are born is something nothing can ever really prepare you for. I heard people talk about it many times before becoming a mother, and still had no idea how all-consuming it would be until it happened. In those first few days and weeks every fibre of your being is screaming at you to love and protect this little person you have brought into the world, and I literally cannot fathom what it must be like to feel those feelings and then hand your baby over to someone else and leave the hospital empty-handed. It is a grief so deep it is almost unimaginable.

    And although the voices of adoptees generally seem to be under-represented almost everywhere, the ones that do come through seem to suggest that they too often feel a similar loss and trauma from the separation of mother and child, even though they may have been too young to be aware of what was happening at the time. Given the intensity of the mother-child bond from the mother’s side, which seems to be almost universal, it makes sense that at some point many adoptees are going to begin to ask difficult questions about their past – did my first mother not have those maternal feelings towards me? Or did she have them, but not strongly enough to be determined to keep me no matter what? And either way, does that mean that there is something wrong with me? Am I fundamentally un-loveable in some way? Of course as adults we know that life is complicated and there are many reasons a new mother may be persuaded to give up her child in spite of the strength of her love for them, but children see things in simplistic terms and may spend an entire childhood wondering if there is something fundamentally wrong with them because of their early ‘abandonment’.

    I know that these are not nice realities, but it seems to me that they are the truth of the situation for most first mothers, and many adopted children.

    And so the question I keep coming back to is this – what is it that adoptive parents can supposedly offer a child over its first mother, that justifies all this loss and trauma? Many of the pro-adoption commenters refer to stories of first mothers who feel good and positive about giving up their child for adoption, because they know that they couldn’t provide the best life for their child, and their child ‘deserved more’.

    But what I can’t seem to understand is, what is this ‘more’ that adoptive parents can supposedly provide, that first mothers can’t? No-one ever seems to be specific about what it is exactly that adoptive parents provide that first mothers can’t, that makes all the trauma and pain worthwhile.

    I am left with the slightly sickening feeling that what is really meant by ‘more’, the subtext behind ideas of children having a ‘better life’ with adoptive parents, comes down to little more than a big house, a successful career, a college education and possibly, as Cassi has suggested, a marriage certificate which we all know isn’t worth the paper it’s written on in this day and age...

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  66. …Have we really become so materialistic that we think wealth and material possessions are the only things that are important in life? Important enough to justify a lifetime of trauma and pain for the first mother, and in many cases for her child as well? Because when supporters of adoption insist that such-and-such a first mother feels good about her decision, the question is not whether she genuinely feels that way or not (which I’m sure many do, or think they do), but rather what on earth could persuade a new mother to go against all her maternal instincts in the first place, and believe that someone else is better placed to care for her child, just because of the material things they can provide?

    How can it be in a child’s best interests to be placed with a family it has no connection to and no bond with, at least at the time of the placement, simply because of the lifestyle they can provide? Which is not to say that adoptive parents can’t grow to love their adopted children, and be loved in return, but it is not the same as the bond that comes from having carried a child for 9 months and then given birth, a bond that the baby already has with its first mother.

    I understand that there are rare and extreme circumstances in which adoption may be in a child’s best interests, but if mothers who want to parent, and can be supported in doing so, are being persuaded to give their babies up on the basis that someone else can provide their child with ‘a better life’ (a thinly veiled euphemism for more money and more stuff), then that is nothing short of scandalous.

    It seems to me that this is what Cassi and other first mothers are taking issue with, this assumption that lifestyle and material things are worth more to a child than the love and bonding they already have in their first family, and the implication that they were not worthy of parenting their own children because they couldn’t provide (enough of) these things. It is frustrating to see her detractors just keep giving more and more examples of first mothers who feel good about their decision because they have given their child a better life, seemingly without realising that it is this very concept of ‘a better life’ that Cassi is questioning. Nowhere have I seen any of them actually engage with the question of whether the whole concept of a stranger being able to give your child a ‘better life’ isn’t frighteningly shallow and deeply flawed.

    Of course we all know that there are rare cases where there really are genuine practical obstacles to a mother parenting her child, but surely in these cases we as a society should be doing everything in our power to support these women and enable them to parent, if that is what they want to do, with adoption as only the last resort in cases of abuse or neglect, or complete inability to meet the child’s needs. But not only is this not happening, but even women who are perfectly capable of parenting, and have the support of their families in doing so, are being persuaded over the course of a pregnancy that what they have to offer is not enough.

    And in case all of this sounds critical of adoptive parents, I don’t think it’s really fair to blame them for the situation either, since I truly believe that the majority genuinely have no idea of the level of coercion that goes on, and they too are often in a place of pain and desperation after many years of longing for a child.

    It’s been said before, but the bottom line is that adoption should not be a business. Here in the UK there is no money involved, and the only stories of coercion I have heard go back to the 1950s and 60s when it was still scandalous to have a child out of wedlock. Any system where the ‘products’ being traded for a profit are human beings is going to get ugly, and it needs to change.

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    1. jenrcg,

      I'm sure I looked a lot like a bobble doll as I was reading through your comments since I kept nodding all the way through.

      Yes! Yes! Yes! Is about all I can say at the moment. I have so much more I'd like to respond but I want to take some time to go through what you wrote and blog about it if that is okay with you.

      Delete
    2. Hi jenrcg,

      It is rare to have a voice from outside of the adoption community who gets it so succinctly. Thank you for such an eloquent post which raises some very key and important points.

      What you said was not and is not critical of adopters - it sums up very aptly the adoption industry. Unfortunately there are many PAPs out there who are aware of the coercion etc however they feel so entitled to a baby they are happy to turn a blind eye and choose ignorance.

      I have even read from the fingers of an adopter that it isn't hers or anyone else's job to help a mother keep her baby. Why should she? was/is her line of thinking and this sort of mind set is common in many adopters and PAPs... they even say the idea of helping women etc and stepping up to keep mothers and babies together is just idealistic. Oh they know all too well the realities - but they don't want to admit that they are part of the issue because then that would mean denying themselves a chance to get what they covet most: another mother's child.

      I LOVE the points you made about the mother/child bond and how it goes far deeper than just the first 40 weeks of a mother's pregnancy! Sooooo many people do not get this!! I know for my own children how many attributes they have that are like their grandparents - and yet when born people like to write babies off as bland slates. They refuse to see the generations that reach far back that have culminated in this small bundle. They also refuse to acknowledge the damage it does to a child who is seen almost as a non entity - in that they are not recognised as people with their own personalities, characteristics and identities rather they are seen almost like dolls who can be molded into who the adopters want. History and research has shown however, that is far from how it works.

      Anyway, just wanted to say again thank you for your comment because it acknowledges so much of what both mothers and adoptees are pushing to get across.

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    3. oops, I meant blank, not bland!!

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  67. Wow, jenrcg! Welcome. You really understand and have put your finger on the problems. Exactly. No one wants to engage with the "more" because it is flimsy. So there are diversions into personal cases about how we are wrong, how it has worked out so well for their children and families, and how bad it is didn't work out for you (meaning us adoptees and fmoms), etc.

    Those of us involved in reform would love it if APs and others (whoever would think critically, really) would think about the system and how flawed it is, and try to reform it. Reform, however, would mean a diminishment of available babies, which, to some, is not acceptable. We reformers are then attacked for being anti-child, anti-"orphan," anti-woman, or anti-what-have-you.

    The UK and Australian systems are far, far preferable to what we have in the U.S. Here' its a three-ring-circus, heavily guarded by the NCFA, agencies, and unpaid shills of APs and happy beemommies and happy adoptees who are praised and given center stage so that their messages drown ours out. We are labeled as misfits, aberrants, and crazies, as you can see from this week. And that's just a drop in the bucket.

    But we *must* keep trying to bring about change.

    Perhaps your message, when read by APs, will be more palatable and will bring about the eye-opening and real debate we need. Anything that comes from those of us in the constellation is usually brushed off, as I've said before, unless it's packaged ever so sweetly. And even then, it's suspect. You, coming from outside all this, provide a voice of reason that's "untainted" perhaps, in the minds of those who don't want to/are afraid to see.

    Thank you!!!

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  68. Thank you for blogging, thank you for being real- we as a family treasure those brave enough to willing "bleed out loud" so that others may learn.
    We are learning.

    Thank you

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  69. @jenrcg,
    I have spent the last 24 minutes re-reading your comments with my eyes popping out of my head, nodding my head and saying "WOW" and "Unbelievable". Someone with no connection to adoption actually gets it.

    I believe that first mothers have made some strides in getting their message across that relinquishing a child is incredibly painful and may lead to lifelong grief. It seems adoptees, as the most powerless member of the "triad", are still pushing a boulder up a steep hill only to have it roll back down again whenever we try to say that adoption was a less than stellar experience for us.

    You mentioned the bond that forms during the 9 months in utero and birth. But I think the bond is much stronger than that. A child shares the entire ancestry with his biological parents on both sides. Being adopted severs the child's roots and lineage.

    As for the proverbial "better life", the truth is that if a mother doesn't raise her child, if she isn't there, then she cannot even guarantee that the child will get 3 squares a day let alone all of the material advantages.

    I don't agree with you, though, about all of the points you made about adoptive parents. I do believe they encourage the mindset that biology doesn't matter and that all you need is love to be a family.

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  70. In response to this:

    I have even read from the fingers of an adopter that it isn't hers or anyone else's job to help a mother keep her baby. Why should she? was/is her line of thinking and this sort of mind set is common in many adopters and PAPs..



    Answer: The world hates poor people.

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  71. APPLAUSE!! Standing Ovation! Excellent blog post. May i have permission to repost it?

    I wrote on my blog about something very similar happening to me. I am on an email list/group made up primarily of adoption "professional" (my authorship qualified me, I guess) and adoptive parents. This list owner BARRED me from posting any more "negative" article links. I was told if I persist I will be removed from the list.

    There are problems about this that concern me in ways beyond those you bring up - being treated as an outsider even within the adoption community - as if that's not bad enough.
    Disallowing anything "negative" and/or labeling us "bitter" of "disgruntled" denies support to those of us in pain, including adoptees - about whom adoption is supposed to be!

    What troubles me even more is the insular "circle" these people create for themselves and those who come to their blogs and lists to learn about adoption. it is like going to a very powerful dictator run country where all news is censored and only the official "state" news is allowed.

    The fear of these people to HEAR the truth is pathetic!

    And the harm that blocking out of REALITY and truth does to the children they adopt is overwhelmingly dangerous and sad!!

    No one can know the emperor is naked! We must all put on our rose colored glasses and ignore, ignore, ignore. We cannot admit that children are stolen or kidnapped for adoption. We cannot admit mothers are lied to deceived and coerced all to meet a demand. We cannot because it might stop the flow and deny others the happiness of adoption (read ownership), and worse, might make us feel guilty for our role in it all - for being recipient participants, openly, knowingly paying bribes or ignoring the flashing red lights and blaring sirens of 'abnormalities' and going through and adopting anyhow to get what we covet - another's child.

    While I understand and support not wanting BASHING or personal attacks....How can anyone learn about adoption through censorship of the truth? How can prospective adopters be prepared for reality? How can those suffering in pain feel supported?

    But everything is about keeping up the front to keep the babies (and the money) flowing...

    Good fro you, Cassi, for pulling their covers off and exposing them! Sorry it took me so long to find your blog post about it after reading about it on facebook. Please let me know if i can repost this?

    "....replace the voice that only whispers about your pain and loss with a strong and unwavering one, and be prepared to tell your story with courage and conviction, to add your voice to all the others, never to be silenced again." Pemina Yellow Bird (2000)

    "I never gave then hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell." Harry S. Truman

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    1. Mirah,

      Certainly, feel free to repost.

      Delete
  72. PS When i wrote my first book, the Dark Side of Adoption, in 1988...I had an entire chapter called Circle of Love that addressed changing the triangle into a circle - no sharp corners.

    Like you, I have always had my personal circle that included adoptive parents. But lately...there seems to be a new breed of aps that are so self-centered and so filled and bursting at the seams with their own sense of entitlement they refuse anything from anyone! i do pity the kids they adopt. i truly do.

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  73. Blimey, I wasn’t expecting quite so much of a reaction to my comment, especially as I was the 103rd person to comment or something, and wasn’t sure anyone would even still be reading by now.

    I feel like all I did was to repeat the same things that Cassi and others have already said over and over again, in slightly different words, hence why I didn’t think it would provoke much reaction, but maybe there is something about being outside of the adoption ‘triad’ that makes it come across differently, as Ms Marginalia suggested, I don’t know?

    I’m also surprised to hear so many people say that it’s rare to find someone outside of the adoption process that ‘gets it’. The way I see it I’m a mother, and that’s the only qualification anyone should need to get it, at least once it’s been spelled out to them as clearly as it is on this blog and others.

    Cassi – no problem at all with talking about what I said on your blog if you want to, and take your time with it of course!

    I also wanted to respond to the points people made about APs aswell, but I have a boisterous 2 ½ year old running round my feet and I’m pooped, so I think I’m going to have to take some time to collect my thoughts on that one and come back on it later.

    P.S. Just wanted to clarify that I didn’t actually ‘stumble across’ this blog like I said I did, the Circle of Moms thing brought me here, via a link on another blog, so chalk another one up to COM (whoever the hell they are) for helping you raise awareness of these issues, and getting you yet another new follower. Way to go COM!

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    1. jenrcg, I think the fact you took the time to "get it" being from outside the adoption arena really means alot. I know for me it does.

      And although you are a mother, I have come across plenty of people who still see mothers of adoption loss as being separate to them. I cannot count how many times women have said to me, "Oh I couldn't give my child up, no matter what the cirumstances" or "I couldn't live if my child was taken by forced adoption". When I first encountered this, I thought it was their way of empathising. Not so as I discovered. I amy as well have had the scarlet letter branded into my forehead which led me not to say anything and deny ever having had a child when asked - which was agonty all of its own.

      So yes, to have someone actually "get it" is huge, hence the reaction. Its hard enough to find adoptive parents who get it or are open to getting it let alone anyone from outside adoption.

      And yes, thanks COM ;)

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  74. Oh, wow. So much running through my head right now.

    First of all, I'm sorry, Cassi, to know that your truth was deemed so threatening, but agree with Amanda about the good that's come of this crazy-making contest-thingie.

    I'm an adult adoptee who only dips in and out of the online adoption blogworld, so I only read about this yesterday.

    But the comments here had me spellbound until the wee hours last night, particularly those from jennrgc:

    "And although the voices of adoptees generally seem to be under-represented almost everywhere, the ones that do come through seem to suggest that they too often feel a similar loss and trauma from the separation of mother and child, even though they may have been too young to be aware of what was happening at the time. Given the intensity of the mother-child bond from the mother’s side, which seems to be almost universal, it makes sense that at some point many adoptees are going to begin to ask difficult questions..."

    Yes! Babies are NOT blank slates. Of course an infant will be negatively affected by losing the mother-child bond. All the more because that bond is the entire world of an infant, it's all they know. If adoption is about the children, family preservation should be the 1st goal in most cases.

    "How can it be in a child’s best interests to be placed with a family it has no connection to and no bond with, at least at the time of the placement, simply because of the lifestyle they can provide?"

    Yes. Yes, this. *applause & hallelujah*

    I wish your comments here would be re-posted on every adoption blog online... the clear-eyed view of someone outside looking in.

    Thank you, jennrgc. Thank you so, so much. Your words here are a balm to this adult adoptee. Thank you.

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  75. Late to the party as always, but just want to say keep the faith, your courage is inspiring. The contest in question and its circular sponsor are shams. Only the truth matters, and you speak it here. Brava!!!

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  76. And the winner of the Circle award for best comment goes to......Jencrg.

    So the question is, "Is this supposedly 'better' life --which can hardly be guaranted--really worth all the pain to the mother and child? Nine times out of ten, I'd say, No!

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    1. Thanks Robin! It was a bit scary commenting at all to be honest, as it gets so heated here sometimes, but I'm really glad I did. It's good to know that hearing these things from someone outside the adoption community has been helpful, and maybe (hopefully) given a bit of hope that you CAN get your message across.

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  77. Jenrcg wrote:"The way I see it I’m a mother, and that’s the only qualification anyone should need to get it"

    I think many a-mothers do not get it because they do not have children until they adopt. Since they are often not bio-mothers, they don't fully understand the power of the biological mother/child bond.

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    1. So how does this work? BM is offensive but A- mother spelled like A-hole is not?

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  78. Myst said “Unfortunately there are many PAPs out there who are aware of the coercion etc however they feel so entitled to a baby they are happy to turn a blind eye and choose ignorance.”

    I actually don’t find it that difficult to believe that there are some PAPs out there who turn a blind eye to signs of coercion. The way that I ended up on Cassi’s blog (via a long convoluted route), was originally through various infertility blogs that I follow, as our daughter was conceived through IVF. So I know a little bit about the pain of infertility.

    I know how it slowly dismantles your life, piece by piece, straining relationships, fracturing friendships, making you feel like an outcast in a world where children and families are everywhere you turn. How it turns the simplest social gathering into an ordeal to be endured, simply because of the presence of children, or avoided altogether because you can’t trust yourself to speak out loud without your voice cracking and tears welling up in your eyes. How time becomes your enemy, slowing down so that a day feels like a week, a week feels like a month, a month feels like a year, when all you want to do is to fast forward to the end of this waking nightmare. How it gradually chips away pieces of your heart, until you feel like you’re just going through the motions of living your life, feeling nothing, feeling numb. How eventually you no longer recognise yourself, no longer know if you can ever get back to the person you were, if one day you finally make it ‘to the other side’. How surviving the daily agony blinds you even to the lives of your close friends and family, let alone the unknown feelings of people you don’t know, going through experiences you’ve never faced.

    How at its worst, the struggle can last a decade or more, bringing with it multiple devastating losses, and some women have seen hope rise and be crushed again so many times that pregnancy becomes a time of terror, and each new loss or failure threatens to be the final knock-out blow from which they will never get back up.

    I would never compare the pain of infertility to the pain of losing an actual living breathing child, however that loss comes about, but it is certainly up there, it’s own unique little brand of living hell.

    And yet.

    And yet, infertility is nobody’s fault, least of all other women who happen to be fertile and facing an unplanned pregnancy. No-one is responsible for ‘fixing’ the pain of childlessness by giving up their own wanted child to an infertile couple. If they were then shouldn’t we all be queuing up to donate our sons and daughters to the cause? And how often do you see that happen, outside of vulnerable young women in crisis situations?

    We know this instinctively, do we not, in other areas of our lives? When someone is in urgent need of a heart transplant, who would ever dream of suggesting that another living person should donate their own heart, to save a life through sacrificing their own? When written down in black and white, it sounds ridiculous, like something that no sane person would ever really believe or say. And probably they never do say it in so many words.

    And yet, the very mention of the issue of childlessness, to an expectant mother trying to make a decision on adoption, implies that it should or could be part of her decision making process, otherwise why mention it at all? But how exactly is a pregnant woman supposed to factor childlessness into her decision - is she expected to somehow weigh up her own desire to parent her child, against the longing for a child of an infertile couple, and award the prize to whoever is the more deserving? Whoever wants the baby the most? And what is that, if not holding one person responsible for taking away the pain of another by making it their own?

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  79. Because when all is said and done, if a mother really doesn’t want to parent, then she will likely choose adoption anyway, and childlessness never comes into it. Only if a mother wants to keep her baby, is the issue of childlessness likely to have any effect on her decision. And no mother can give up a wanted baby, planned or otherwise, without setting in motion her own personal tragedy.

    If adoption counselling were truly neutral, truly about helping a young woman to come to her own decision about the right option for herself and her baby, then for me there are only really two questions to ask – does the mother want to parent her child, and if so, is it possible to put the necessary support in place to enable her to do so? The childlessness of another couple is irrelevant. And I say that as someone who spent three long years not knowing whether we would be able to have children of our own, knowing in the back of my mind that adoption may turn out to be our only chance of building a family. But it was not up to anyone else to take away our pain by making it their own – what would that achieve except to transfer the agony from one woman to another, creating a string of other casualties along the way?

    No, life is a lottery, and nature doles out her tragedies pretty much at random. All we can do is to make the best of the hand we are dealt. Which is not to say that we shouldn’t empathise with others in difficult situations, and try to help wherever we can, but not at the cost of sacrificing ourselves in the process. I may not have found it quite so easy to come out and say these things back then, but I knew them in my heart.

    But of course, we are all fallible human beings, and people do desperate things when they are in pain. I can certainly believe that there are PAPs out there whose pain and desperation sometimes cloud their judgement, and lead them to close their eyes to what is really going on. So often in life we believe what we want to believe, use whatever rationalisations will allow us to do what we need to do to silence our own pain, sometimes without even being aware of the deception. Which is exactly why the struggle for reform is so urgent - why it’s so important that the adoption system is designed in such a way that it is not driven by desperate people with alot of money, or businessmen in suits with no conscience.

    But I also know that before finding this blog, I for one really did believe (perhaps naively) that the vast majority of adoption situations involved first families who either had no interest in parenting, who really couldn’t parent, or who were not fit to parent. Maybe it’s just because I’m in the UK, where there isn’t really any incentive for anyone to try to persuade a mother to put her child up for adoption (not anyone outside of her family and situation at any rate), but I do think that there must also be some PAPs out there in the US who just haven’t had their eyes opened yet, who simply assume, like I did, that things like that don’t happen.

    Some of the infertility blogs I follow have become adoption blogs along the way, so I know that there are some good (or at least better) PAPs and APs out there. One woman who adopted internationally wrote a post about how she doesn’t like it when people tell her her children are ‘lucky’ because she knows that in order to become part of her family, they first had to suffer the most ‘unimaginable loss’ in being separated from their birthfamilies. She acknowledges that barring extreme circumstances like abuse/neglect etc, the first choice is always that children be raised by their birthparents, and failing that the extended birth family, and only if these are really not possible should adoption even become an option.

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  80. Two bloggers have tried to adopt through domestic infant adoption (one giving up after 3 failed adoptions, saying that they ‘couldn’t endure the lies and heartbreak of the adoption process anymore’). Both have written posts whilst waiting to hear the outcome of adoption situations, asking their followers to keep the birthparents and their baby in their thoughts and prayers. One said that while the situation was ‘painful and devastating’ to her and her husband, it was even more so for the birthparents. The other actually said she hoped the baby in one particular situation would be placed with another family, as she felt it would be the best thing for the child in those particular circumstances. So there are some PAPs out there who do try their best, through their own intense grief, to look past their own pain and try to think about what is best for everyone in the situation.

    Then again, maybe PAPs and APs who blog are not representative of PAPs and APs in the general population. In order to write, you first have to think, and from the comments here it seems that some PAPs and APs don’t do a whole lot of that.

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  81. Hello, I am currently writing a Documentary about all sides of Adoption. If you would like to be involved, please visit my website http://adoptiontruths.webs.com/ for more details. I would be delighted to hear your story, small/long, funny/sad. Unless otherwise asked for, everything is kept anonymous.

    Many thanks in advance.

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  82. you are one sad puppy "out of circle mom", hope you get some therapy and get better real soon.........but i doubt it, your pain and your kind of "crazy" go way too deep.....

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  83. I know that this is an old blog but Jenrcg April 15 - you are wrong. It is happening in Britain It not only happened to me in 1985, the Social Workers encouraged my abusive Mother to abuse me. They celebrated when I got pregnant at 16 saying "Yeah, we've got a bun in the oven ! ", they told me that the baby in my belly was not mine. There is a monetary reward for Social Workers in England. It just involves cooking the books and getting promoted for "saving the baby". Much worse was to follow when I would'nt let go. Its very complicated. But these "people" should be prosecuted for child abuse, for both my son and myself. please forgive me if I am wrong, but you sound like a "planted" social worker to me. Avril

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  84. Jenrcg - sorry I am a bit beffudled, tired and emotional, I have read some more of yr comments and I actually am not thinking straight at the moment. please ignore above comment if its not true. going to bed to try and sleep. avril

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