Thursday, March 18, 2010

God, Hate and Adoption

**I’m really curious about why you hate everything about adoption and all adoptive parents. You are so full of bitterness and anger that I feel really sorry for your family and what they must have to put up with from you carrying all that around.

God talks about Satan and his works and I can see that at play on your blog where you continually demolish the very act God himself has called Christians to do and criticize those who have been brave enough to take on this challenge and adopted children under his gracious and wise direction.

I can’t imagine the horror my children would have spent their lives with had we not adopted them. None of them had birthmothers financially or emotionally capable of offering them anything good and I believe it was God’s doing when he made it impossible for me to birth a child of my own. He knew my husband and I were meant for greater things.

I encourage you to find direction in your life and to find your way back to God and his teachings. Your salvation will not be found in your hatred of his words and his desire for us to call forth our greatest sacrifices and serve him in his Glory.

--KateeB—**

Dear KateeB,

Because my mother taught me manners, I will take the time to first thank you for your email. But I do believe, that will be the ONLY thing I have to thank you for.

Hate is a strong word isn’t it? It can instantly rile somebody up, put them on the defensive. And yet, you are right, I do hate many things about adoption. Many, many things. I hate that society discredits the bond between mother and child. I hate that adoption is no longer about children in need of families, and is centered on couples in need of children. I hate that over and over again, in our great country, where we should be providing the best care and support for family preservation, we instead give absolutely no value to such a virtue and instead believe the answer is to treat children as merchandise and hand them off to whoever we deem is worthy of being a parent.

I hate that through coercion and manipulation adoption has grown into what is now being projected as a five billion dollar industry. I hate that so many can’t see the horror of this, can’t understand how wrong it is to use mothers and their children to continue to fuel the profits of the most greedy.

I hate that so many are okay with causing so much harm to others simply to satisfy the needs of those viewed as “more deserving.

But I don’t hate ALL adoptive parents. In fact, there are many that I carry a great respect for and like very much. I encourage you to check out my blog list and follow the links to these wonderful women, to come to know them as I have and hear what they have to say.

There are others, though, that I DO dislike and have absolutely no respect for. Adoptive parents who hold the same “self-righteous” beliefs it appears you carry. For them, no, I do not carry any kind of warm and fuzzy feelings. And I will not apologize for that.

When you come across a hopeful adoptive mother who believes God killed another woman so she could adopt her child. When you read about adoptive parents who crush a gift given to their child from the only family he had ever known up until his adoption. When you hear, over and over again, adoptive parents dismissing anything an adoptee might have to say if it doesn’t fall in line with their expectation of complete and total loyalty and gratitude . . . it becomes very easy to form a dislike for such people and to see that they care only about themselves and their own desires and don’t care who they may harm in the process, including their own children.

Don’t pretend to be so righteous in supposively saving a child if you have adopted for your own needs. Don’t discount those who speak a different truth as being bitter and angry simply so you can keep your own fantasy world going, full of rainbows and sunshine.

And don’t expect me to hail anyone as great heroes who believe that they served some great purpose in life because they adopted and should carry a savior medal for doing so.

Oh, and as for my family, I guarantee you, the last thing they would want from you would be any kind of worry or sympathy. Since you don’t know me personally and have no clue of my life outside this blog, you have no insight to the laughter my family and I share. You’ve never seen the pictures of my children smiling and joking around with one another. Never had any such insight to our family dynamics and the happiness we share with each other.

A happiness that comes, by the way, not with the belief that everything has to be “happy” and “perfect.” Or that anyone should have to live their life grateful for the love they receive or expected to earn that love.

Nope, sorry, for myself and my family, our happiness comes in being allowed to be who we are. In having the freedom to feel what we do without worry of being judged or discredited for such feelings.

And as for Satan being at play in my blog . . . well, you just run with that one. Let me know how it works out for you. Considering my own Pastor has read my blog and has never even hinted at such a ridiculous belief, I don’t think I have any worry in that area and will just leave you to believe whatever you will on that end.

I don’t need you worrying about my salvation or about my relationship with God, either. I’m perfectly fine there, thank you.

Perhaps it is easier for you to believe that God “called” you to adopt. That in His wisdom He caused such terrible heartache for another so that your own needs could be satisfied. But that is not the God I know and believe in and I will never EVER allow anyone to lead me to believe otherwise.

To do so would mean believing that somehow, even in God’s love, you are more worthy than another. That there must be something special about you that God had no problem taking from another to please your own desires.

I won’t, and never will, believe such a thing. And you will never have the power to taint my belief in God with your belief that He would ever act in such a way for your own benefit. If I were to follow that path, I would quickly find myself running and screaming the other way and questioning everything about my faith in Him and His teachings.

And, unless you own a crystal ball, you will never know if you “saved” your children from any horror. Being rich or poor does not determine the ability of a parent. And who knows what exactly you view as being emotionally” unable to care for a child. Especially if you are walking around believing God holds you in such high regard that He would harm another to please you.

To me, that doesn’t sound too emotionally secure either.

I hope, beyond any of this, you are not denying your children to accept all parts of who they are, with their adoptive and first families. I hope, that what I view as being very narrow minded is only an opinion I have formed from your email and not a reality that might affect your children as they grow and search for their identity.

Your children do not, and never will, deserve to hear how you “saved” them from “horror.” They need to be allowed to love and accept all parts of who they are, including their first family. You owe them that. As a mother.

For all that you have said to me in your email, I realize that I have no other way of knowing you or who you truly are as a mother and a person. I can only hope that, just like with me, the life you live in the real world is not one limited to the beliefs you shared in your email and that you are constantly doing all you can, all that is within your power, to provide everything your children deserve, including giving them the freedom to know all parts of who they are without the fear of upsetting you or losing your love.

Because, as their mother, that is what you know they deserve, no matter how they became a part of your family.

68 comments:

  1. First Cassi, I am sorry you had to have such a nutter send you an email full of, ironically, hatred and bitterness at the truth you speak.

    To KateeB, since you want to talk about Satan then I will let you in on a little secret. Right now, since you sent that email to Cassi, Satan has been doing a little victory dance. You see, you have twisted God's word so much around to suit you that Satan is happy that you are doing damage, evil using God's own name. Nothing makes him happier.

    God never said anything about going out there and taking the children off anyone. In fact, if you even read your bible which I sincerely doubt given your drivel here, you would know God doen't even condone infant adoption and adoption, as we practise it, isn't even in the Bible.

    So you see dear Katee, I think you are focussing on a speck of sawdust (probably not even that) in another person's eye whilst ignoring the huge and massive giant planks of wood coming out of BOTH your own. I say both because it appears they have blinded you to the truth whne you see it.

    I will end by warning you that bringing you know who into your lives as you just have in this email to Cassi will only end badly for you. I pray that you will see the error of your ways before it is to late.

    ReplyDelete
  2. KateeB, what a nut! Are you kidding me? First of all, if God had wanted you to have children, you would have your own.

    No woman has the right to claim a child as their own that is not their own.

    Yes, there are some great adoptive parents out there. Yes, they claim the children they adopt as their own. But they do it to be part of the child's life, not to make the child part of their life.

    People like you make my stomache ache - with bile.

    You are and will always be the worst of all women. You have deliberately set yourself above the creator of the universe. You have made a choice that was not yours to make and you have stolen something that was not yours. You have walked up on the heart of another woman to satisfy your own needs. You disgust me.

    Since you brought God and God's word into this remember in adopting a child you break many commandments:

    Thou shalt have no gods before me - You make yourself God in assuming to know God's will.

    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors (fill it in) - this includes their children.

    Thou shalt not bear false witness - bet you had your name put on their "NEW" birth certificate as having given birth to them.

    Thou shalt not kill - for as surely as you have coveted the child of another, you have killed the spirit and soul of not only the child you stole, but the mother that weeps for the child.

    Now, you keep writing your foul and obscene words and when it comes time to face what you have done, you will have nothing to cover your nakedness - for greed is a mortal sin and you relish in it.

    Buzz off freak.

    ReplyDelete
  3. None of us have a right to judge another, I believe Christian teaching had something to say about casting the first stone.
    All of us who are Adoptees have a right to speak our truth about being adoptees without being silenced as we have been for so long.We are the experts on our own experiences, we've been made to live the adoption scenario all our lives, no longer for those of us in survival.
    Listen adopters you may learn and if you don't like what you're hearing make sure you get it right as no other generation before has.
    When America stops being the biggest supporter of the adoption industry in a world in which children are taken from their mothers for profit and adoptees are given the same rights as others under your Bill of Rights and when adoption becomes unknown as it is in some religions and countries where the anguish of relinquishing mothers has no words to describe and no baby is taken away for adoption because mothers are supported properly, not coerced, manipulated and tricked, then perhaps we'll have reality and not bizare and cruel expectations that children can live lives that are not their own pretending to be someone they are not, in a family that is not theirs.
    All of you are recommended to read the books of Evelyn Burns Robinson for a realistic look at what adoption is really about.Available via the net and the best books on adoption around at present.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Christians who claim "God did it!" when it was really THEIR will or man's will are really wolves in sheep's clothing.

    As a Christian, I used to wonder why non-Christians hate us...now I know why.

    Don't blame God for evil. Don't tell me that I was born from the wrong belly.

    ReplyDelete
  5. OK so we all have different opinions on what it means to be a Christian. But I don't see what good it does to post an email someone sent you personally on your blog for all your groupies to gather around and agree with you.

    ReplyDelete
  6. To the last anonymous poster...Cassi's blog = Cassi's discretion.

    To Katee..you're really lucky that you didn't inadvertently write that email to me..I wouldn't have been NEARLY as kind as Cassi.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Last Anon - Christina is right, it is my blog and my discretion. But I will tell you this . . . I get email from first moms, adoptees and adoptive moms and not all are my "groupies" as you put it and don't always agree with what I have to say.

    This is the first time I have posted an email in full on my blog and there are two reasons why I chose to do so.

    First, the person who sent this email, in my opinion, did a hit and run. To my knowledge, we have never had any previous discussions, have never interacted before and I have no idea where this KateeB came from or what exactly prompted her to send me the email, other than she didn't like my blog. Fine, that is her opinion and she is entitled to it. But if you are going to come in and take a punch and run off without any clear reason while you felt compelled to do so, than you give me the right to respond in whatever way I choose.

    The second reason I chose to post this was because the beliefs that she shared are, unfortunately, commom in what I have seen in other adoptive parents and hopeful adoptive parents and I chose, by my right, to use her email as my chance to speak out about how I feel about God and adoption and those who use such beliefs in their life and against others.

    I did send KateeB an email letting her know I responded on my blog and invited her to read and comment if she felt the need.

    That is about as much respect as I am willing to give her.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Cassi:

    You did a phenominal job in replying to yet another self-entitled, selfish adoptive mother who thinks she was so much more deserving of someone else's child; then rely on the good ole' "gods will" crap to justify the never ending pain a grief a mother feels at being the hidden woman on the other side, left out in the cold. I wonder how many of these "good christians" made open adoption promises to "their" birthmother, only to reneg and move, leaving no forwarding contact information? I happen to know one who did just that personally, the liar who adopted my child.

    KateeB said.

    "You are so full of bitterness and anger that I feel really sorry for your family and what they must have to put up with from you carrying all that around."

    Oh, but the adoptive parents who think they are so much more deserving and entitled to someone else's flesh and blood are never bitter or angry, are they?

    You becha they are. They are bitter and angry at the fact that they know they are not the natural parents of the child they covet, so they feel the need to come to a first mothers blog and berate, defame and duhumanize us who speak the TRUTH; the truth that threatens them so.

    Get used to it. The internet is not going anywhere and neither am I. I can't speak for all natural mothers here but I will venture to say they aren't either...

    Signed,

    A first mother Groupie :)

    ReplyDelete
  9. I'm an adoptive parent. I'm posting anonymously because after reading that email from KateeB I'm a bit ashamed to be associated with any group she's a part of.

    Cassi~I'd like to say FABULOUS, respectful job in responding!!! Better than she deserved.

    KateeB~You still have a lot to learn about adoption. Heck, sounds to me like you have something to learn about God, too. It doesn't matter WHY a mother and child are separated by adoption (true choice, coercion, or involuntarily due to abuse or neglect), there is trauma and loss for the child and in the HUGEST majority of mothers. It's truly, truly rare for a mother to not love and want her baby. God does NOT orchestrate that. People do. He MIGHT, and I hope and pray this is so, guide the right children to the right homes when possible (making something positive out of humankind's evil). What He did NOT do is make your children and their mothers go through that anguish just so you could have children. Get over yourself!!!! And yeah, like many of the others said, I'd pray and worry about Satan a little closer to home if I were you.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I'm sorry but am I deemed a bad adoptive mom because I do believe it was God's will that led me to adopt my daughter? Am I so wrong for following the scripture that clearly directs Christians to this calling?

    I don't agree in all that was written to you but there are points I can relate to and I do agree with. I too believe that I was unable to become pregnant becasue God meant for me to use my gifts in other ways. And though I don't agree with the reference to Satan and your blog I find it hard to think if your Pastor has read some of what you wrote here he hasn't taken some issue with how boldly you defy the act of adoption.

    I understand some have had bad experiences and choose not to see the truth but I don't think that means we must all turn away from our Faith and ignore what we know in our hearts.

    And someday we will be called on for our sins and where will those who refuse to follow his guidance be left? It is then when you will have to answer for your blindness.

    ReplyDelete
  11. "I understand some have had bad experiences and choose not to see the truth"

    No, adoptive mom... you are the one's who refuse to see the truth, that is there is no "god" whom allows for one go gain (adoptive mother) at the expense and suffering of another (the first mother). You tweak the word of "god" to suit your own selfish agenda's.

    Where in the "scipture" does it say that is okay for someone to have to suffer for the rest of her life so another can have their way? Nowhere, that's where.

    ReplyDelete
  12. In His Glory - There really isn't much more I can say in response outside of what I've already said in my post.

    I can't know the pain and loss infertility causes but I know many women go through this and suffer from it and my heart truly does go out to them. I would never wish that grief on anyone.

    But I will never believe that God makes a woman "unable" to become pregnant because he wants her to adopt. I will never believe that he expects one woman to suffer the loss of her child in order to satisfy the another needs.

    I believe he mourns for all of us when we are in pain but I don't believe he picks and chooses who should suffer which pain and who should be blessed with their desire for a child.

    It's just not the God I believe in.

    ReplyDelete
  13. In His Glory- I don't think you are bad, just delusional. God didn't call you to do anything. God doesn't work that way. This is just your way to satisfy your own needs without any guilt. Kind of the opposite of "The devil made me do it." but it really is the exactly the same thing. Personally, I think it is horrendous that you would actually use God to justify your need to parent. As a Christian I am outraged and ashamed of you. As an adoptive parent, I think you give the rest of us a bad name in your suse of God to justify your need.

    ReplyDelete
  14. KateeB's a fibber. Because she said she was curious. And she isn't. Quite the opposite, actually.

    ReplyDelete
  15. My own opinion - KateeB - you are one lost bird. Anon, don't be ashamed, be loud, tell the truth. In His Glory - you really are delusional. It is beliefs like yours that created the crusades, the inquisition and the Salem witch trials. Thousands have died upon the altar in which you seem to worship - that worries anyone with a brain.
    And yes, there is such a thing as walking on the belly of the mother while claiming to be the mother.

    Oh how very sad and pitiful you are. All that would use the Universe, the Creator, as a reason for your evils.

    I will hope that one day your eyes open and your mind works. If not, I pray you never get a child.

    As for infertility - guess what - I had only one child! The child another woman stole, raised and abused - so think about that! Those that whine about infertility, I wonder how many of you know how many first mothers never have another child.

    Ignorance....sigh....just more bloody ignorance.

    Oh - final line - whoever it was that said this was some kind of groupie response. KMA - I am no one's groupie and have a mind of my own. I just have more sense than whoever you are than to respond to something that is totally stupid or something that I have no idea what is going on. So, BITE ME.

    ReplyDelete
  16. How can it ever be God's will for a child to suffer loss, a mother to suffer loss so another STRANGER can have what they want? That is what you are saying "In His Glory". And that is not a Godly view but merely a selfish view. It has nothing to do with you being a "bad adoptive mother" (really, how immature and shallow can one be) but your perception on life in general. You chose to believe God's will lead you to adopt which also leads me to understand you feel God orchestrates adoptions for people who want to adopt. Delusional. That belief is the result of warped teaching and church doctrine and NOTHING to do with the heart of God Himself.

    As for not being able to get pregnant, it was NOTHING to do with God... it is called LIFE. Are you so narrow minded you cannot see that life happens to everyone?? God doesn't control things and like others who have bad things happen to them, you are meant to get healing and learn ways to bless others IN SPITE of your loss, not go out and CAUSE MORE LOSS just to fulfil your lust for a child.

    God doesn't bless adoption and if you knew the Heart of God and the word of God as you suggest you do, you would know this. All you know is how the church interrprets it and from what I see on many adopters and pap's blogs from the USA, there is an epidemic of abusing and twisting God's word around to suit what a person wants, and not just with adoption.

    I am concerned people like you and Katee B with this mindset are passing themselves off as Christian. I understand, when I read statements like yours and the original email why so many people are anti Christian. You sure don't help change that dynamic, you cause it to happen because everyone else can see how hypocritical, judgemental and narrow minded it is. My advice: go and get a life outside your precious little community.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hello, Cassi,

    I'll echo a few other commentors by saying that I'm sorry that you had to endure such an e-mail...a "hit and run" as you so aptly describe it.

    I know that we come from adoption from different sides, but I've always appreciated your honesty, integrity and candor in your dialogues with me and other adoptive parents. To have an adoptive parent as self-righteous, narrow-minded and ignorant as this KateeB make such accusations against you...makes my blood boil for you.

    As always, thank you for allowing me a little space to share my thoughts.

    Best and peace.

    ReplyDelete
  18. "Saying that God meant for everything to happen the way it did is like saying God meant for suffering to happen"

    There was something along these lines at another adoptee blog, saying that God predestined everything.

    So I said: Saying that God meant for everything to happen the way it did is like saying God meant for suffering to happen. Using God is a way of ignoring the human element in everything – social workers, orphanage workers, societal laws and stigmas, hospitals, adoption agencies, and so on.

    And the commenter responded: "God DOES indeed intend for suffering to happen. Biggest picture of that is Christ on the cross. He uses our suffering for the reasons stated above."

    Head-desk.

    [I too believe that I was unable to become pregnant becasue God meant for me to use my gifts in other ways]

    Of course, and you have every right to believe it. The result in NOT being able to believe it would have you face the possibility of not being a mother at all, which is too frightening... isn't it.

    God doesn't deem who is worthy or unworthy of being a mother.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Also, adoption in the Bible isn't even remotely the same as modern adoption as it is practised today.

    Funny how people conveniently forget they were "orchestrated" differently.

    ReplyDelete
  20. I'm chiming in again. Not that it matters I suppose but if it takes 1,000 times of hearing it before these people get it well here's one more of those needed times.

    God does NOT cause or intend for all the suffering there is. Humans created it and will continue to be responsible for it. He knows it all, I imagine it devastates Him to see what we do to each other. He is our way through it and He does, I believe, help us make the best of it when He can.

    It's called free will, kiddies, and there's a heck of a lot more said about IT in the Bible that adoption.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Cassi,
    I am so a 'groupie' so don't deny me my title ;)
    It may be fruitless to debate the righteous but I so *heart* you for trying.

    God did not coerce my children's parents to relinquish them for my benefit. Period + exclamation mark! Amen.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Sad. I have read your blog for some time and am so sad that you feel you were coerced into your decision. I was 16 when I got pregnant. My mother wanted me to have an abortion. A friend offered me the money. I almost gave my daughter up for adoption as well. I chose instead to keep my daughter and left home and went with her father. I sold my soul to keep my daughter, sometimes it really feels that way. Not everyone does that. I have no judgments either way. Last year I adopted a little boy from overseas. As we speak, his baby sister who is about 6 months old sits in the same orphanage I adopted him from. His bio mother, and by the way, I have never had an issue calling her his mother even though she left him in the hospital when he was born, is in prison. She has been for about 4 years. She conceived his sister in prison. There is so much more of the story I could tell. Please trust me when I tell you that my son is lucky to be alive considering what he endured in utero. I don't believe God made any of this happen. We have free will to choose our paths. However, I know with everything in me that I was born to be Oskar's mother. I also know that I will love his bio mother for the rest of my life. If it was possible I would thank her for letting him be born and promise to always treat him like the prince he is to me. Without her, there would be no Oskar(and I kept his name just in case she named him). I am also so very grateful that God prepared my heart to raise my son. It took me 18 months to get him home. It was the hardest thing I ever did. He sat in that orphanage for 5 years waiting for a family. I used to pray something would happen and his bio mom would come for him, even though realistically with her life choices and health I knew it was impossible. As I went to the orphanage to get my son, I was told about the baby sister who was about 2 weeks old at the time. I held her and cried. It felt as if my heart had been ripped out. Sometimes it still feels that way. It shouldn't have to be this way. Still, I know one thing for sure. Oskar will be loved for the rest of his life. He will never worry about being alone. He will be held when he hurts, and I would die for him. Because he was adopted he will live a long and healthy life, you'll just have to trust me on the details of that statement. In my heart, he will always have two mothers, one who gave him life, and one who will make sure he gets to live it. P.S. should you want an invite to my closed adoption blog, feel free to email me at sheadrummond@hotmail.com. My other one is current and open.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Cassi -

    'Nother groupie here and proud to call myself that. This was another excellent, thought provoking post. Well done.

    I have a question. Call me an ignorant individual, but what is the exact reference in the Bible which mandates that all Christians adopt, especially as we construe it in our modern day? I am truly trying to understand the scriptural basis for the justification of infant adoption.

    In James 1:27 of the King James version of the Bible we read, "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction..." (my emphasis.)

    So if pure religion is to visit the fatherless and minister to them in their affliction, then what is the removal of the "fatherless" from their mothers so that other people can raise them? Wouldn't that be the opposite of pure religion? Am I just over thinking things here again?

    Hopefully someone can point me to the direct scriptural reference that Christians use, I would really appreciate it. Anyone?

    M.

    ReplyDelete
  24. In you the orphan finds mercy.

    Hosea 14:3
    ... See More
    Never take advantage of any widow or orphan. If you do and they cry out to me, you can be sure that I will hear their cry.

    Exodus 22:22-23

    For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."

    Romans 8:14-16

    But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

    Galatians 4:4-6

    You are the helper of the fatherless. LORD, You have heard the desire of the humble; You will prepare their heart; You will cause Your ear to hear, To do justice to the fatherless and the oppressed, That the man of the earth may oppress no more.

    Psalms 10:14,17-18

    Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

    James 1:27

    Father to the fatherless, defender of widows — this is God, whose dwelling is holy. God places the lonely in families.

    Psalms 68:5-6

    When you are harvesting your crops and forget to bring in a bundle of grain from your field, don’t go back to get it. Leave it for the foreigners, orphans, and widows. Then the LORD your God will bless you in all you do.

    Deuteronomy 24:19

    Learn to do good. Seek justice. Help the oppressed. Defend the cause of orphans. Fight for the rights of widows.

    Isaiah 1:17

    Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; ensure justice for those being crushed. Yes, speak up for the poor and helpless, and see that they get justice.

    Proverbs 31:8-9

    And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me.

    Matthew 18:5

    I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!

    Matthew 25:40

    ReplyDelete
  25. Hey Shea~

    There is nowhere in any scripture that condones one woman having to suffer for the rest of her life so another can covet that mother's child (because she is infertle). There is no god who allows that. None. Zilch.

    You can post your bible quotes all you want. Quite frankly, I find it to be a little condescending, (as well as disrespectful) to us mothers who have endured unthinkable grief at the loss of our children to the adoption industry.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Here is one for all of you who think that the bible and god tell you to adopt someone else's child...

    "THE WICKED SNATCH FATHERLESS CHILDREN FROM THEIR MOTHER'S BREASTS, AND TAKE A POOR MAN'S BABY AS A PLEDGE BEFORE THEY WILL LOAN HIM ANY MONEY OR GRAIN" ...

    ReplyDelete
  27. Wait a minute couldn't shea be quoting that god desires us to adopt but not that he is making mothers lose their children so we can adopt?

    The truth is clear that there are many mothers every day who give away their kids for whatever reason and if we as christians do not stand up and adopt these children they will live forever in terrible conditions.

    If god doesn't have anything to do with mothers giving up their babies and these mothers are giving them up because of their own free will then can't we atleast accept that god wants us christians to step in and take care of them and love them and adopt them into our family as he adopted us into his?

    Linda

    ReplyDelete
  28. "that god desires us to adopt but not that he is making mothers lose their children so we can adopt."

    Well........... if you adopt, a mother is losing her child, am I not correct???? A great deal of the time, that mother is perfectly capable of being a mother to her OWN child. You are contradicting yourself and will continue to do so until you are blue in the face. That is why what you are all saying is a bunch of CRAPOLA.

    All any of you are doing is tweaking the word of god to suit your agenda, which happens to be that you are unable to become pregnant, therefore think that you deserve to covet someone else's child (and then justify it by saying it is GOD'S WILL.) Not ALL adoptions are brought forth this way, but most who speak of their experiences here, and many other first mother blogs have.

    You can cut the "free will" crap too. You damn well know that a young, scared, easily manipulated, vulnerable woman comes to that "decision" out of being brainwashed by everyone one around her (adoption agencies, her parents, PAP's,) that she is not worthy of keeping and rasing her own child because she is young and unmarried. Don't even try to tell me she is not influenced by those around her who have THEIR best intests at heart (NOT HERS).

    A great many women come to that decision believing that she is entering into an "open" adoption, only to be cut out of the picture at the adoptive parent's whim (who all seem to claim what "good Christians they are).

    Save your breath.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Great Bible verses Shea... but NOT ONE mentions adoption in its present day form. The words adoption, as mentioned in the reference to the "spirit of adoption" is not the same as what we have here today. In fact, it never mentions anything about infants, name changes, loss etc. It is a term which referenced the free will of a grown man to be accepted, for inheritance purposes, the sonship of another man, in those days, in many cases, it was a way for masters to free their slaves. How can one then, use this verse for anything to do with infant adoption? They cannot and to do so is blasphemy.

    The other verses... well not one of them mentions stealing a child from their mother. Not only that, these verses defend the message brought by Family preservationists to ASSIST those in need of help to keep their babies. Helping orphans and the "fatherless" child, does not mean taking them in and wiping their history, no way, it means taking them in helping them as a human being, to give them shelter, love, nurture etc.

    The bible has many great references in it to guide people how to treat others. It is just sad the words are twisted so much to use for an evil purpose, like infant adoption. This is mankind at its worst... and no one seems to do anything about it.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Condescending, I think not. I chose to keep my child at 16 and leave home to do it, and I later adopted my Oskar. I was offered adoption, abortion, and to just walk away and leave my child. I fought to keep her, and at the age of 18 took on the responsibility of raising my brother when our mother decided to check out on life. He is now 20 years old. My son's mother did not loose her child. She gave him away. She was high when she came to the hospital to give birth, my son will have life long issues due to her iv drug use. She left him in the hospital and never once came to see him after he was transferred to the orphanage. They only found her to terminate rights when she turned up in prison a year later. All of these things were admitted by her in the court papers. Until then they could not find her. I provided biblical quotes because they were "asked" for. My son's "first" mother has been in prison since he was 1 year old. No family member stepped forward to raise him. No home was found for him in his native country. And when his first mother gets out of prison, I can only pray and hope she is able to live a healthy life. Chances are with her health conditions, it might not be that possible. As far as free will goes, remember I was 16, pregnant, living in my parents crack house, and had very little options. BUT I kept my daughter, raised her, and went to college. I had free will to walk away, and I had free will to take on the world and raise my child. Still, with all that being said, I JUDGE no one for their choices, not even his bio mother. I don't know why she was an iv drug user or what lead her down that sad path. My son will never hear one negative word about his bio mother from me. I believe that God knows everything that will happen and gives us free will to make our mistakes or whatever you call them. I also believe that when I pray for God to use me for good, that he prepares me to do so. So that is why I believe I was prepared to be O's mom. He knew that one day he would be walked away from and he knew I wanted to love a child, and he brought us together. There is so much anger and sadness around this whole subject, but one little boy named Oskar is full of laughter, happiness, and love. It's so sad that his bio mother could not have been there for him, but that was her choice to walk away from him. I was told in court that they would have helped her try to keep him and she could have stayed in a government home while she got herself together, but she walked away without even filing his birth certificate. She walked away and not once went to see him. It's her great loss. She missed out on the most amazing and perfect son God ever created. Not all mothers are coerced into giving up their children. Some admit like she did that their children are better off being raised by someone else. I actually have that in the court papers. If any of you read my blog or followed along with our adoption you would have seen the love and pain I had in my heart for that woman.

    ReplyDelete
  31. How can one say a child is stolen from a mother when consent is given? I had nothing when I got pregnant with my daughter, but I kept her and raised her. She is 14 now by the way. I had no home, no parents(unless you count parents high on cocaine), no education, no job. Still, I raised my daughter. There are women out there who want to raise their children, there are women who need more support to do so, and there are women who don't want to.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Okay, in one part of Shea's response, I'm going to try my hardest to temper the emotional response I can see coming . . . REMEMBER, for so many of us, we do stress how often "others" view women giving up their children, and the bare and honest, and sometimes painful truth is . . . one of them is those mom's who did fight the odds, did all the could, with what little they had, and kept their babies. Shea's response, in that area, I believe is a very real, very common and honest feeling among those mom's who, for whatever reason, did not give up their baby and instead fought and faced everything thrown at them to keep them and raise them.

    I do have some questions though, Shea, that I hope you will know, beforehand, I am trying to approach delicately. When you were pregnant with your daughter, was there any kind of pregnancy center or agency that became a part of your decision making? Or did you know, from the start, that you were going to keep your baby? Was your decision made with or without the counseling so many pregnant moms go through?

    I'm just curious because I have often wondered if there is a different experience for those who have lost their children to adoption and those who have said "hell no" I'm not giving up my baby.

    I know, for me, there was another pregnant mother in my high school who gave birth only a few months after me and she also didn't give up her baby. She also never talked with the school nurse who gave me the brochure for the adoption agency, never went through any kind of "counseling" and instead ended up enrolling in our school systems "teen mom" program that provided education as well as day care for pregnant teens, a program I was never told about though we both went to the same school.

    So I just wonder your experience and if it was closer to hers or mine.

    ReplyDelete
  33. *How can one say a child is stolen from a mother when consent is given**

    As for this, I can very easily say a child was stolen even if a mother gave consent.

    For the most part, I believe "stolen" was an act of the agency, not the adoptive parents but I know without doubt it does happen to very, very many.

    I gave consent. I signed the papers I was required to sign, I placed my oldest son in his adoptive mother's arms and yet he was stolen from me in every way because while I struggled, hated myself had no answers to why I would have ever considering adoption, why I would have put his adoptive feelings first and used them to make my decision, the adotpion agency knew, from the start, exactly how to best insure I would give up my child and one of their ways was to make sure I created a close relationship with his adotpive parents because they knew that doing so would give them better odds that I would give up my child.

    Legally, they might have my consent, but in every other way, manipulation and coercion most definitely stole my child from me.

    ReplyDelete
  34. I will be completely honest. I had no prenatal care until 4 months. Up until that point I was trying to find a state in which a minor could get an abortion up to 20 weeks. I could not think of my pregnancy in terms of a real child, I just knew my life was over. I was also looking into adoption though(my grandmother was adopted from an orphanage when she was 4). I was very torn between the two. The only advice I had gotten up to that point was abortion(from friends and my mother). I had also moved out of state(left home, mother was too high to really care) with my daughter's father and we were living with his brother(bad situation). I went to a nurse practitioner and also found a pregnancy crisis center. They handed me a little plastic baby that was the size of the fetus I was carrying. They offered no direction except that abortion was not the way to go and told me if I came back every two weeks they would give me a baby item(diaper bag, sleeper, etc). I went home and talked with my daughter's father. I was still torn about abortion, but seeing that little baby and knowing it was a baby, I told him I wanted to give our child up for adoption and just could not abort. He cried and cried. He told me he could never forgive me, and as he cried he asked me not to give his baby away, our baby. I didn't. I stayed with him and we kept our daughter.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Cassie, I am so sorry. I am so very sorry you weren't given support. I want to say something too. Years ago I was going to volunteer at a pregnancy crisis center. I chose not to because they were only pro adoption. I wanted to tell girls that it was possible to keep their children too. I truly see all sides of the situation. I am a mother whose grandmother was adopted, almost gave her daughter up for adoption, yet 14 years later adopted a child of her own.

    ReplyDelete
  36. As for the the rest of your comments, it's hard for me to draw the lines because I see so often it brought up how the first mom was an addict, abusive, didn't care at all for her child and so God did at least have a hand in it to make sure the child was led to the "parents" waiting for him or her. That God wanted this, or knew this child needed them before their birth. That maybe, he didn't have a part in the adoption but he was the reason the child ended up in a "better" life, one free of addiction and/or abuse, neglect.

    But then, does that make my son "less than" in God's eyes because he wasn't "saved" from a life of addiction or abuse or neglect. God didn't see that this was his future and guided another to save him from it, protect him from it. No. If you go by the belief that adoptive parents are simply "led" to be the ones to adopt the children in need, then why in the hell would God lead my son's adoptive parents to him when the childhood he had with them was one of addiction and abuse.

    Am I to believe that your adopted son held "more" and that God knew from the start that you were meant to be his to save him from such horror while, what???, my son slipped through the cracks, and God didn't realize or do anything about the fact that he faced such things at the hands of those who did adopt him and were supposively "saving" him?

    Do you see where I cannot, and never will, accept God's hand in such actions. I just, plain and simple, cannot! And never will be able to.

    ReplyDelete
  37. I say condescending and disrespectul, Shea, because I just wonder why you feel the need to come here and place yourself on your holier than thou pedestal, when I (and I think I can speak for most other mothers here) are hurting very deeply at the immense pain of losing our children to adoption.

    I think it is wonderful that you kept your child. I wish I would have done the very thing you did, every day of my life. That is why I come to these blogs, because these are the ONLY other women who understand what I lived, and continue to live every day.

    To read comments, such as what this post was originally about, from people who have not lived with the grief of losing their children, but in fact have GAINED from that loss and grief, it strikes a cord very deep within me. I cannot even begin to describe how degrading and dehumanizing reading things like that make me feel. I hope you can understand where I might be coming from when I say "condescending and disrespectful."

    ReplyDelete
  38. Shea, don't be sorry for me.

    I do have an amazing respect for you that you did keep and raise your daughter. No matter the reasons, you DID face the odds and kept and raised your daughter. That in my opinion, is something to be praised and respected.

    ReplyDelete
  39. And, so you don't think I'm just beating up on you, Shea, I have a family member who I love but who I still have a similiar battle with and let him know as well I can't believe God had any hand in it . . .

    His belief is that it wasn't that God intended for me to have a child to fill the needs of another but that, maybe, it was God's punishment toward me for having sex and getting pregnant outside of wedlock.

    On that I challenge him just as I challenge others who suggest God had anything to do with my son's adoption.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Cassi,

    Never would I say that one child is worth more than another, never. I understand why you believe God had no place in any of this. However, if you knew the whole situation in my story, you would very much understand why I think he did, in my case at least, and the fact that you found your son again makes me feel that God must love you very much(hopefully it does not offend you for me to say that). AND I have to believe that my son's mother loved him, I don't want anyone to think I don't believe that. I have to. She cared enough to leave him at a hospital and not in the street. She said in the court papers she decreased the amounts of drugs done during pregnancy, so she DID try. She knew he would NEVER get the care he needed with her, and he would not have, not in his native country. She loved him, and I think she loves him still. I feel it in my soul. You see, I could have been her. I could have gone down one little road. We were about the same age when we got pregnant. That could have been me....

    ReplyDelete
  41. Shea - and also, thank you, for answering me so honestly.

    I have often wondered what the difference is with those mothers who lost their children to adoption and those who didn't.

    And I actually have a post in the works about another woman who went to the same high school I did and was actually pregnant about the same time and how the "counseling" she received actually led her in the "third" direction - abortion and how that has affected her life as well.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Anonymous,

    Though I have gained a son, never think for one second it did not come at a price. Never think that I believe I am holier than anyone. I told very painful personal things just to show that I am better than no one. If O's mom had shown up at that court house with her crap together, I would have walked away. It might have killed me, but I would have done it. I would have sent her money and done everything in my power to help her, if there had been a way. My husband and I discussed that before even getting on the plane. Unfortunately the medical stuff still would have been an issue. ?She would not have been able to take care of his needs in his native country. My reason for coming here was not look down upon anyone. I just wanted to say that it's not so rosy from the other end. Some of us hurt right along side of you. By the way, my son's mother's name is Kristiina. It's a beautiful name, isn't it. Sometimes I wonder what she looks like. I wonder if he has her smile. I wonder if he has her laugh. I wonder if she hurts on his birthday. I wonder if there is anything I could ever do to ease her pain, and I thank God every day for our son. Sometimes I think I have to love him twice as hard and twice as much just for her. Sometimes we hurt too..... from the other side.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Shea - I've seen other comments of yours so I know you do truly love your son and his first mom. And I know that you aren't suggesting your son means more than my own or upset that you tell me God love's me. I know he does. That is, fortunately, one of the things I don't question in my faith.

    And I think, for the majority of it, even though it can kind of get lost in the back and forth, we agree on a lot more than you think.

    But when it comes to God and his hand in adoption, I think we might have to just agree to disagree. Not that I don't doubt for a minute how much you love your son or know that you're a mother who is always trying to learn more and do more for him so that you can be whatever he needs without restricting him to the old "grateful" beliefs so many have, and still hold.

    I just can't, and never will believe that God ever has a hand in anything that happens up to the point where a mother and child are separated, for whatever reason - even in the most horrific. Or that he sees, beforehand that such things might happen to a child and designates another to be the "mother" for him when the time comes.

    To me, if God saw it beforehand, his answer would never be to let any child suffer because he already had a mother selected for him or her. He wouldn't pick and choose which child would continue to suffer and never be "saved" while offering such a thing to another child.

    I believe God hurts when we do. I believe he feels our pain, suffers with us, especially our children. But that, because he gave us the power of free will, he expects each and every one of us to be the best we can be, through our own choice, without his controlling our actions or foreseeing how we might use that free will.

    And I believe that AFTER we, and especially children, have suffered, he wants us to care and help them, to do all we can for those who need us, but I don't believe it is something he "foresees" and allows to happen, and I don't, honestly, know the answers to his expectations on how we should care for them.

    I don't always believe adoption is the answer, but I also know that is formed on my own feelings and that I don't have answers to better solutions.

    I do know no child should ever be left to suffer, should ever face abuse or should ever be without family and those who love them unconditionally.

    But in those beliefs, I really don't have a clear and definite answer into what I think God truly wants us to do.

    ReplyDelete
  44. "I wonder if she hurts on his birthday. I wonder if there is anything I could ever do to ease her pain, and I thank God every day for our son.."

    I know for a fact my son's adoptive mother did not feel like this towards me. The woman I chose and entrusted with my child lived (unbeknownst to me) a mere 15 minutes from me for many of the years I did not know if my child was dead or alive and I was not even worthy of the pictures and letters I was promised. That is why I am here. To keep myself sane when the thought of that becomes too much to bear... and it does alot.

    She could have done one thing to ease my pain... treat me like a human being, a woman, a mother with feelings, rather than just an incubator for her and her husband.

    I appreicate that you and many others hurt too, Shea. Sincerely.

    ReplyDelete
  45. My child was stolen in every sense of the word. My consent, once coerced from me, was withdrawn barely days later. I fought for my child in court despite being told the odds were against me and I won her back. Her adopters, not any agency as none was involved, but her adopters are the ones who TOOK ME BACK TO COURT to get her.

    As far as I am concerned, because my consent had been ruled as witdrawn, there was no consent in play anymore and given I was still fighting for her, she was stolen from me. And sadly, I know too many other mothers where this has happened. My story, although I was told it was rare, has turned out to be more common than I initially thought.

    So yes, when I talk about adoption and stolen children, I mean it. Adoption has become a legalised way to steal children and not just from their mother bit their wider families, their true heritage and place in the world. Adoption is based on pure fiction; it is a dishonest system with a lie at its very foundation and as such, I can never, ever condone it and neither should anyone professing to be a Christian because dishonesty is against everything Christianity is about. The other name for the devil? Father of lies. Adoption? Based on lies. Therefore in what universe can that be turned around to anything else?

    There are always ways to care for a fellow human being in need without the need to tell a lie and change their whole history. But this is rejected because it doesn't suit people's agendas. No one wants to see the truth of the matter and so more and more childrne are stolen for adoption purposes and then when people start to speak out against it, they are accused of evil and doing the work of the devil. Talk about screwy!

    ReplyDelete
  46. Thanks Shea. I appreciate all of those references. (Just as an FYI, in the King James version of the Bible, the "orphan" references are all "fatherless." Which version did you reference?)

    I have already looked at all of those (even written some blog posts about how they are misused by Christian PAP) and still am wondering... how do these scriptures justify the removal of an infant from his or her mothers arms to be placed into the arms of another woman?

    Yes, I understand the admonishment (and desire) to care for the orphan/fatherless, but generally in the Bible, it is spoken of in context of caring for them where they are - in their need - not removing them from their natural family/culture/country of origin/language, etc. Yes, I understand the need for some children to be raised by others when their lives are in mortal danger (Moses, who was going to be killed by the representatives of his future adoptive father is an example of this) or when both of the child's parents are dead (Esther, who was raised by her uncle). But ,no where does it say that a child should be raised by another simply because his or her mother is poor or single or uneducated. In fact, the Bible tells us to specifically fight for the rights (Isaiah 1:17) and care for those women who have no husbands, for those children who have no fathers by dedicating a portion of our tithes for their care (Deuteronomy 26:12) and by leaving some in our fields for them (Deuteronomy 24:19).

    I guess I am just confused at to how folks can say that they are "helping the oppressed" and defending the "cause of the fatherless" (Isaiah 1:17) and not "taking advantage of the widow" (Exodus 22:22-23) while justifying infant adoption as we practice it in the United States of America today.

    I know of few other things more oppressive or more carefully crafted to take advantage of a vulnerable woman than the coercive adoption practices researched, developed, and utilized by those organizations involved with the NCFA. At a time of their greatest need for the pure religion of Christ, which is caring for the fatherless in their distress (James 1:27), infants are taken from their mothers arms and given to someone society has deemed more worthy. Note the admonishment is to care for the fatherless in their distress, not remove them from it, not create false identities and genealogies for them. Does that make any sense at all?

    After reading your comments Shea, it is obvious that you do love your son and that you are attempting to fulfill the desire to care for a child who may need your support. I am just still having a hard time understand the scriptural justifications for the practice of infant adoption - infants who have a mother, who have a family, but who are being wooed and coerced out of their mothers arms through bold and/or subtle lies about their true worth in God's eyes as a person and their ability to parent.

    ReplyDelete
  47. And I really should have proof read that post before hitting "publish." Sheesh - sorry about all the typos/grammatical errors in there...I think I need more sleep.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Melynda,

    I think maybe we agree much more than you think. However, it "seems" to me like many see this topic one sided, whereas I see it from all angles. I do not deny that some women are coerced into adoption. I do not deny that some women could have been given the support needed and kept their infant children. With all that being said, I believe that some women should not be mothers, and that does not have to be wrong. Let me tell you why I believe that. My step father raised me and my sister along side of my mother. I met him when I was two. My sister is 2 years younger than me. My mother conceived my sister by rape. She did not want to keep my sister and did not bring her home from the hospital. My grandmother did. After one week, my step father talked/begged my mother into letting him go and bring my sister home. My mother then proceeded to make each day of my sister's life a living hell. She told her almost daily that she was the product of a rape and that she wished she was dead or that she had given her up for adoption. Soemtimes she would throw plates of food across the floor and then laugh and watch my sister clean it all up just like a dog. I can not repeat the words she called her. By the time I was 16 and had left home, both of my parents were heavily into drugs(before that my dad really had his stuff together and was great). My mother then decided to sell my sister's virginity(she was 16) to a dealer. They offered her a choice. She could give it up or they would take payment from our 6 year old brother. Not a hard choice for a little girl to make when she adored her little brother. I had moved away in another state and found out many years later this happened. Of course this is the extreme situation, but there are many women out there that do not want children, do not want to be mothers, and see adoption as a viable option OVER abortion. I see no need to judge anyone. Some want, crave, and love the idea of being mothers. Others get into situations they can not handle. Children are innocent in all of this. No child should be unwanted. No child should be someone's mistake. Perhaps the screening processes should be better, different, or more thorough. However there are still going to be women across the world who do NOT want their babies. I would much prefer a mother to give up her child for adoption istead of being shamed into keeping them like my mother was. My sister could have had a chance. Not much could have been worse than the life she lead. Instead of accpeting my mother's insistance that she did not want her, my grandmother and father made her feel such guilt that she gave in and raised a child she did not want. As far as the whole biblical area goes, someone should be there for these kids no one wants. Someone should love them enough to put them first. Where is the child's voice? When do they become most important? When are their right valued? Who was speaking up for my sister? Who was there to protect her? No one. Not even me because I left home because I could not stand it anymore. I LIVE with that forever, and so does she. She hates me you know. She holds me responsible for not protecting her. I should have been there......

    ReplyDelete
  49. God didn't invent rape and he did not invent adoption either. BOTH are crimes against women. Coerced sex is rape, and coerced surrender for whatever reason is reproductive assault and exploitation. Child adoption as we know it today was only invented in 1851 -- God had nothing to do with the creation of the adoption industry and the sale of children.

    No woman deserves to lose her child through poverty (financial coercion) or other forms of coercion (emotional, social, psychological, etc.).

    Cassi is not "bitter" - this is a huge derogatory insult. She is justifiably angry at the baby brokers, their customers, and the system that stole her baby from her.

    KateeB -- how much did you pay for those children you adopted? How much did a baby broker profit from the sale of a human being? Because that is what the adoption industry does: it sells children like cattle.

    ReplyDelete
  50. I'm not KateeB, but I would like to chime in on the cost of my adoption. Our agency here in the United States, Adoption Hope International in Myrtle Beach lost money on our adoption. They charged me $1000 only, and with the money they spent on fed ex sending stuff to me and back and forth to Estonia they went in the hole(probably to the tune of several hundred dollars if not more). In fact, Diana and Barb, the directors often do not take paychecks some months. When I started the adoption they said they just wanted to find O a home. He had waited too long already. I did have other fees like translation of documents in Estonia, travel(plane tickets), notary(in Estonia the govt charges $20 per page for any document needed notarized!), a homestudy(which was done by a non profit agency and EXTREMELY cheap), a small international fee(among the lowest I have ever heard of!), and a small facilitator fee in country which basically covered the cost of the gas of my facilitator and a little of his time. He charged me $75 a day(5 days) and he had another job he took time away from when he helped me(gas was over $6 a gallon when we were there). He had the right to charge us $200 per day and we agreed to that, but he did not do it, he never does. He basically makes nothing off these adoptions and that is very unusual as far as facilitators are concerned. Some days he spent 5 hours driving us around and helping us get documents in order. Estonia only lets about 20-30 kids a year be adopted internationally. I know you did not ask me, but I just wanted to chime in.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Well Shea.. maybe it is one sided to some of us who lost our children, who did not have to (and should not have). As I and countless others have said, and I will continue to say...

    There is no god who allows the lifetime suffering of a mother, so another woman can covet HER child.

    How many "angles" does it take to look at that fact? Only one for me...

    ReplyDelete
  52. "How can one say a child is stolen from a mother when consent is given?"

    Even if a child is not physically TAKEN from their mother's arms, a consent does not mean a mother is WILLINGLY surrendering her child. In most cases, she does it because she is given NO alternatives.

    So that is actually forced consent, which is considered legal consent but not emotional consent, and certainly not "willing" consent.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Is this debate still going? Shea, you say you see this from all different angles... no, you see it from your own and you see it through the eys of an adoptive mother. You may have once been a pregnant young woman and "fought" to keep your baby but you never lost your child so you DON'T see things from the angle of a mother who HAS lost her child. To say you see things from all angles is patronising and condescending.

    You can only ever see it from your own angle and as you adopted, that places you in the arena of those who have gained through adoption no matter what else you might say.

    I find you contradictory in many of the things you say. You give validation with one hand and take it away with the other... I don't see how that helps.

    What happened to yous sister was terrible and awful... but how would have placing her for adoption with strangers guarantee her a better life? It wouldn't have. Why couldn't she have lived with wider family? That is the way family should be helping more thus ensuring children stay within their own families wherever possible.

    No one here is advocating a child stay with abusive families but forcing a child to live a lie like adoption is an extreme way to save a child. And unnecessary.

    ReplyDelete
  54. "no, you see it from your own and you see it through the eys of an adoptive mother. You may have once been a pregnant young woman and "fought" to keep your baby but you never lost your child so you DON'T see things from the angle of a mother who HAS lost her child. To say you see things from all angles is patronising and condescending."

    THANK YOU. I think she is being patronising and condescending too, very, and she is starting to p*** me off.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Spirit within us, now the hypocrites and takers proclaim that mothers whose children were stolen for adoption have no faith. It seems to me the faithless one is she who covets another woman's child and pretends to be its mother, as if she can fool God.

    My faith has gotten me through hell for over four decades. It saved me and pulled me up. No adoption pushers ever did. They take our children and throw us away and bear false witness against us. Their talk of faith is dogs barking at the moon.

    They are not honest, humble people. They're blind and arrogant. When God compared His love to a mother's, he meant a natural mother whose child grows in her womb, not a delusional stranger who wants to separate the mother and child. If those people are like God, we're all lost.

    Others' lies and self-deception won't change who we are. All the 'positive adoption' talk and legal mumbo jumbo on earth can't make a woman a mother when she's not. Talk is cheap. That's why adoption pushers only talk about love and morality and Jesus. Living by the Golden Rule requires humility and real sacrifice.

    Unconditional love has no strings attached. It springs from faith. Adoption is a cult of faithless people who worship false idols and dehumanize others to justify their cruelty. Mature, loving people are transparent. They don't hide behind secrecy and lies or use them to control children.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Shea, you wrote of the man who facilitated your adoption, "He basically makes nothing off these adoptions and that is very unusual as far as facilitators are concerned."

    Thanks for proving our point. Adoption is a multibillion-dollar industry in the U.S. More humane, progressive countries ban all payments for adoptions and devote their efforts to preserving natural families, regardless of how young and poor the parents are.

    Child welfare experts know that allowing ANY money to change hands in adoption and foster care endangers children. They know that funding and promoting stranger adoptions fuels a corrupt system that's caused irreparable harm to millions of children and their natural families.

    You repeatedly use the terms "some woman" and "some mothers" to evade the ugly truth. The evidence confirms that the vast majority of stranger adoptions in the U.S. and foreign countries are not of orphaned, abused, abandoned children, but of children taken from their natural parents by fraud and coercion.

    Adoption proponents believe only what they want to believe, what makes them feel comfortable and a cut above the herd. They refuse to acknowledge that their ignorant beliefs, materialistic 'values' and indifference to others' suffering have destroyed the lives of innocent people.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Your knowledge of international adoption is so very small and probably limited to statistics from Guatemala and other really corrupt countries. You truly know so little about what happens in Eastern Europe. Have you ever walked into an orphanage in Eastern Europe. I think not. VERY little children are adopted from Eastern Europe that are not special needs or older children. In fact, the only children that are adopted from Estonia are either older or special needs, not minor special needs either. Pretty much the same happens in Ukraine as well. Reecesrainbow.com is where I found my precious Oskar, and they also support mothers overseas who KEEP their babies, and try to educate other into doing so. A package is being sent very soon to mothers in Bulgaria who are keeping their babies with down syndrome(therapy equipment). The mission of reecesrainbow is to one day be put OUT of business so that birth mom can keep their babies. However, there are many kiddos waiting. Many children are abandoned or given up. One family recently adopted from Ukraine and the apt where they were staying was within blocks of the birth mom who had refused to meet them and see the child one last time. Look into Torez in Ukraine. Another family met their child's mo9ther wyho had 3 other perfect kiddos and did not want the child who had down syn. The mother had chosen to leave the child in the orphanage. They also met the grandparents who did not want the child as well. It is actually very frowned upon in Eastern Europe to keep a child with special needs. Most kids that are not adopted by age four with special needs are sent to institutions in Russia and Ukraine. In torez, a large percentage die within the first year from starvation and lack of medical care. You refuse to look past your own life experiences and see that adoption is not all bad. Either way, I feel bad for whatever happened in your life to make you so angry, sad, and bitter. Thankfully, you are the minority. Thankfully some look after the child's interest first. Is adoption corrupt? Yes, some adoptions are corrupt. Should there be more support out there for birth moms? YES. Of course. However, adoption can be a wonderful and beautiful thing. My son sat in an orphanage for 5 years. No family member ever stepped forward and he was abandoned at birth, and they actively looked for a home for him in Estonia for a year before he was listed for international adoption. Like I said, the minority is against adoption. Thank GOD for that. Thanks as well to everyone on here that has made me even more aware that I did the right thing, and I will advocate even stronger for adoption and the rights of all kids to be loved, wanted, and to have families. If the birth families and birth mothers aren't going to step up to the plate and take RESPONSIBILITY for their children then us STRANGERS will just have to do the job for them. God bless people who think beyond themselves and do for others. BTW, if anyone should like to contact Andrea at reecesrainbow.com to see what you can do to HELP birth moms overseas keep their babies, she would be more than happy to help. Reecesrainbow was recently featured in people magazine. It's an amazing ministry.

    ReplyDelete
  58. "If the birth families and birth mothers aren't going to step up to the plate and take RESPONSIBILITY for their children then us STRANGERS will just have to do the job for them."

    So, finally we see your true colours Shea. Who the hell do you think you are to judge anyone? And how of what anyone has said here back up how you feel about adopting Oskar? That makes no sense at all. Its an emotional reaction but not a logical one.

    Adoption is ONLY wonderful and beautiful to those who gain from it, ie the adopters. But it is based on a foundation of loss so it can never be beautiful and wonderful... unless you are saying loss is beautiful and wonderful (which would be insane to think btw).

    ReplyDelete
  59. Pro-Reality... amazing responses. You speak the absolute TRUTH.

    Shea sure did show her true colors. I'd like to know who the hell she thinks she is too. She needs to get off her holier than thou soapbox.

    "God bless people who think beyond themselves and do for others."

    I think you meant to say "god bless people who think they are so much more deserving and worthy of someone else's child than they are."

    ReplyDelete
  60. "If the birth families and birth mothers aren't going to step up to the plate and take RESPONSIBILITY for their children then us STRANGERS will just have to do the job for them."

    Ah, yes. Back to the old "TAKE RESPONSIBILITY" retort as if assuming that birth families did not even want their children.

    (I do realize that in your child's circumstance it was different - that no one stepped forward, but this is not the case for a lot of overseas adoptions. Families do not step forward because it is ILLEGAL.)

    Oh, and thanks for assuming the worst of birth families in terms of said responsibility.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Thanks for your support, Myst and Anonymous. Yes, Mei Ling, that 'take responsibility' cliche gets old. The people who tell us that surely aren't demanding that the NCFA, CCFA, AAAA, Catlick and Moron leaders and other criminals take responsibility for the corruption in their child-trafficking industry. What cowards, picking on us instead of the real bad guys.

    Most of us would have taken responsibility for our children if the predators hadn't lied to us and had told us our legal rights. That's all I ever wanted. It didn't enter my mind to take government handouts. I wish I'd known about them! I'd take responsibility now but my son is too heavy to carry and has a wife and child.

    Also, his loving forever parents threatened to disown him if he had any contact with me. God forbid I violate the sanctity of those powerful adoptive bonds. They love him so much his male adopter told him he wanted to kill me. It brings tears to my eyes... The deep love between him and his buyers is so beautiful.

    Actually, he's wealthy and takes care of them and makes them look good. That was all their doing of course. They said so. They have so much in common. They're all white! Truly, the Lord works in mysterious ways.

    My son would be a perfect poster child for the NCFA: "Looking for an unwanted healthy newborn drug-free high IQ orphan? Adopt one of ours and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."

    What really makes me angry about that responsibility b.s. is the fact that most adoptees and mothers I know did and do take responsibility. We've also contributed a thousand times more to society than we ever took or would have taken.

    My son, his father and I have all worked and paid taxes since we were 15. Between us we've donated a small fortune to charities and thousands of volunteer hours to good causes. All Big Brother and his fascist parent surrogates did was exploit us and cause us terrible pain.

    So screw these 'take responsibility' hypocrites and their lies. They WANT us to be sluts, druggies, child abusers and welfare queens so they can justify their child-trafficking racket. Sorry to disappoint you guys. Now you've got something else to whine about. I know you are never, ever satisfied.

    They must not get around and meet many of their own kind. If I made a list of all the self-serving, immature, hostile wingnut adopters I've encountered and described their destructive behavior and the dysfunctional families they 'built,' and posted it on one of their websites, they'd go ballistic.

    Most of them have a severe allergic reaction to reality. I guess adoption can't fix all of their personal problems.

    ReplyDelete
  62. * Yes, Mei Ling, that 'take responsibility' cliche gets old. The people who tell us that surely aren't demanding that the NCFA, CCFA, AAAA, Catlick and Moron leaders and other criminals take responsibility for the corruption in their child-trafficking industry. What cowards, picking on us instead of the real bad guys.**

    Pro-Reality,

    This is probably one of those most honest, logical things I have ever heard in all the back in forth in the world of adoption.

    You are completely right, we hear how us moms should take responsiblity, how we are the bad ones, the ones who should "realize" that there are "bad" moms out there that justify adoption. But you rarely ever hear the same rhetoric returned to the adoption industry and backers behind it.

    How about we call them out and beat up on them like we do the moms and children who are separated because of adoption. Why don't we demand our government and the government of other countries step up and take responsibility for how they have and continue to fail mothers and their children. Why do we not put our anger, our disgust on them, instead of on those of us who have lost so much!

    I agree with you so much. We, as a society, attack the mom and child and turn our heads and ignore what the true bad guys are doing because, after all, aren't they the ones who are doing good by moms and children because in their terrible failure, atleast they are offering up children to be adopted.

    ReplyDelete
  63. I am so fired up I am uncertain I can form the proper words!
    First of all... did it ever occur to that self righteous misinformed woman that God did NOT bless her with a child because she was not meant to be a parent!!!?
    She had money and support.
    I was conned out of raising my own child. Money. The ROOT OF ALL EVIL. So good for her ): she was able to buy a few babies to fulfill her own needs. I gave my daughter to a infertile, aging, desperate couple... because they had Money...and a Home... At my young age I thought that was better than un wed, poor me. They are now divorced! after 8 years of having the privilege of raising my daughter! I have been married for 21 years and counting! Young women need to know that your life can change quickly. You can not predict that you will eternally be unable to care for your own child. My child is... Bought...Spoiled...Taught hate and disrespect. She is tattooed, pierced...Smokes...( That represents her pain)She is emotionally not stable regarding her adoption. My other Children are polite, loving and would never act the way she has. I have empathy, love and compassion for my child. I blame the Adopters. They once had the gall to blame her troubles on being adopted...I reminded them that THEY were the ones who adopted her. Keep lying to yourself. ADOPTION IS A LIE.
    Pretend the real mother is dead and does not want to connect. You stole His/ Her birthright... Family...Siblings...
    History...You think that does not hamper...pain...effect Him/Her??
    God chose the birth mother to be the that childs mother!
    The only sin committed here is not being able to trust that God would provide for the child he created within you...because of the influence and lack of support from others.I understand it is impossible to know that when you are young and impressionable. Young Mothers do not stand a chance with the baby hungry self entitled vultures.
    Your child is a part of your soul. If you do adopt...do not deny your child's right to know who she is and do not pretend the mother is trash to make yourself feel like a hero. If you think the mother is trash...then you think your adopted child is. Adoption should never be for needy parents! If the mother dies I can see the purpose.I see a lack of appreciation for the mothers of their so called gifts. If you truly were not selfish you would allow a relationship with the Mothers. No threat because love is infinite.
    I understand that not all birth mothers a wired to want their child.or it is too painful. I understand that circumstances and upbringing can be a huge factor. I do not judge you. I am speaking from my experience. My opinion. I wish for a happy ending. What could that possible be? I already lost so much. I tried so hard to reunite and mend our wounds but they run so deep. I love my daughter with every breath I take and I wish her peace, joy and love. I would love to connect in person one day. I am afraid after all the nightmarish things she has said to me it will never happen.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Birth mother
    "willingly surrenders" her child because she is told....
    If you REALLY love her you will let her go. If you want what is BEST for her...If you were not so SELFISH you would give her to people who are ready and financially able. You are not ready, too young, poor, not married...
    You have no home of your own...

    THEY are infertile... THEY want their dreams to come true...You are such a blessing from God. YOU are the answer to THEIR prayers...

    YOU will break Their hearts if you change your mind!!! You need to honor your commitments. THEY are better for the JOB. THEY can buy everything she needs...They are educated...Stable...

    Young pregnant women are impressionable particularly by the adults in their life. They want to please... do the right thing. They are hormonal, scared, confused and ashamed. They are judged.

    I had an inferiority complex. I was abused as a child. I had no confidence that I could be a good mother. My mother was part of a legacy of emotional and physical abuse passed down to me. I did not know love. I had no support. I never met my father. I was abandoned by him. You never stop wondering why... longing to fill one of missing pieces in your soul.
    Birth mothers never ever forget their child... never stop regretting. Never stop feeling like a failure or broken.
    You can have a family, marriage and friends but your child is missing. All you want to do is bring her home. It will never happen...The brain washing has been effective. The loyalty to the hand that fed them is deep. The bond has been tainted. Forgiveness had never been taught and the birth mother has been rejected.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Wow. Just wow. My head is reeling from the nonsense you've had to put up with at the hands of these self-righteous APs. Appalling.

    I have to comment about this:

    "I'm sorry but am I deemed a bad adoptive mom because I do believe it was God's will that led me to adopt my daughter?"

    Certainly everyone has a right to their beliefs, and can choose to see the hand of God in their lives. But God is just, and demands justice. His expectation of us adoptive parents is that we see the injustice in adoption and work to correct it, which includes acknowledging it and humbly respecting those who have suffered from it.

    I'm just about up to my eyeballs with this half-baked "God called me to adopt because a Greek word that some people translate as adoption appears five times in the Bible, so hand over your kids and don't complain because God's on my side" thing. It's theologically ridiculous and perverts the core teachings of Christianity.

    I'm really sorry you and others have to hear this all the time, Cassi. It's just plain wrong, on so many levels.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Shea's twisted logic and "beliefs" would also mean that God meant for my adopter to beat and molest me while the other one stood by and did NOTHING.

    God is NOT the excuse for evil. Stop blaming him for adoption. The only adoption he condones is that of an adult person who willingly asks to be adopted NOT a helpless child who has no choice.

    Stop smoking the God weed, Shea. Your brain will rot and die and slide out your ears one night while you're sleeping. Ew. Stop it.

    ReplyDelete
  67. It's blogs like this that make me think of James 1:26-27 26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world. I LOVE this verse becuase even though it is the Bible which many people do not belive it still brings a truth in our lives. In a world that can lie, beat, twist and make evil anything that is good the only thing that it can not change is the good deeds of one man to another. Even though yes, there will be evil homes a majority of them will be good and give the child a loving healthy enviroment to live. And yes i do belive that God himself gives adoptive parents a calling to raise a child that is not of their genes. How else would they last 18 years of having to raise a child that can be moody, frustraiting, loud, and at times ignorant? God helps them to work hard to get the child to a better road in life with the resources that the biological parents may have not had. In addition you mention the adoptive parents adopting the child for themselves and not the child so that makes them selfish yet you do not look on the other side, say that the biological mother should keep the child for the childs own good and yet if the biological mother knows she does not have the money, time and at times abilities to raise a child but keeps it anyway isn't it an act of selfishness? Look at verse 26 again it clearly states that even if a man thinks it's good but knows in his/her heart it is bad that it is an act of selfishness.
    In short i belive adoption is wonderful it gives children a chance to live life to its full potential and then pass it on to their children/people they influence. I think you should not just look at it from one side but also from the other side. Sorry to keep this dead comment board alive I just felt it needed a little bit of "justice" so to speak.
    -L

    ReplyDelete